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The Joys of Unix Keyboards

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Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#61
post #19

Unicomp (the company that took over IBM/Lexmark's buckling spring tooling) makes a Sun layout keyboard which is also worth mentioning for those who like a larger keyboard: https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/40PSA (Not affiliated with Unicomp, I'm just a fan of the Sun keyboard layout)

Good to see that there are still really good keyboards being manufactured new. Thanks for the link, I think I will order one :-).

Can't comment on the quality, but audible click like the original -M is a no-no and who needs the number block on the right? Waste of valuable desk real-estate.

  Still looking for a quality *quiet* keyboard like the Cherry I had in the early nineties.

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a deep and complex answer to your point about Unicode code points, which is an interesting question to consider in light of the 1980s shift away from a terminal I/O paradigm. The shallow response is the simple question: What are the Unicode code points for End, Calculator, F7, and Paste? These all have USB HID usages. (-:

> What are the Unicode code points for End, Calculator, F7, and Paste? True; OTOH, there already are control characters such as `BS`, `DEL`, `BEL` and so on that also don't make all too much sense if you look at unicode just as a collection of glyphs. So, I personally would still maintain that allocating a couple of blocks for stuff like this wouldn't hurt that much. Also, no one said that the HID specs could not des…

Transmitting Unicode code points would, however, be a giant step backwards to the way that things used to be done, where our terminals had hardwired keyboard maps, that we had (if we were lucky enough to be even given the option by the manufacturer) to select on the terminals themselves, via setup menus or otherwise.

Whereas nowadays, everything is software-mappable. The actual hardware interface is agnostic as to the semantics of any particular key or chord. It effectively speaks entirely in terms of ISO 9995-1 key positions and a big bitmap. What any given key does is entirely software-programmable. (Apart from [Fn].) Even the nuttiness of the PC/AT backwards compatibility fake modifier keys is largely behind us.

We have regular keyboards with sometimes as many as 122 or 127 keys. The infamous "Space Cadet" keyboard had only 100 keys. Even the old 101-key U.S. PC/AT keyboard had more than that. We have gaming keyboards with even more keys, still, making use of the extensibility built into the protocol to have vendor-defined keys. (And there is even less of a relationship between those keys and Unicode than there are for the End, Calculator, F7, and Paste keys.)

Our applications know this, moreover. They don't only get told about characters. They know about key press and key release events, modifiers, and all sorts of special chords from [Alt]+[F4] to [Control]+[W].

We simply aren't using the old I-send-you-precomposed-characters terminal I/O paradigms in our input devices any more. Nor is that reflected in our WIMP user interfaces.

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#63

> I can't imagine why anyone thought Caps Lock should have had this prominent of placement. Caps Lock was originally Shift Lock on typewriters, and was adjacent to the Shift key because it was literally a mechanical locking device to hold the Shift key down.

Although you're absolutely right, I still think there's actual merit in the way of thinking of the sentence you're quoting. Very much about keyboards today is derived from strange quirks that were part of typewriters for very good reasons, but have never been properly reevaluated once they were converted to electronical keyboards. Of course, the main goal likely has been to minimize friction for those users that were…

> Very much about keyboards today is derived from strange quirks that were part of typewriters for very good reasons, but have never been properly reevaluated once they were converted to electronical keyboards. Of course, the main goal likely has been to minimize friction for those users that were already used to typing on a typewriter.

The original design is based on typewriters from the 1890s. Within a few decades the design constraints had already changed (hence e.g. the Dvorak layout, which is optimized for 1930s-style typewriters).

Anyhow, after the original typewriter and mid-20th-century teletype machines https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/ASR-33_a..., the biggest influences of modern keyboards are designers at IBM and German bureaucrats from about 1980.

A number of features of the German DIN office equipment standards forced significant (frankly arbitrary and unnecessary) changes on anyone who wanted to keep selling computers in Germany.

There was a wide variety in computer keyboard designs up through the 80s, and then somewhere in the mid-to-late 80s the IBM 101-key layout became entrenched, and we’ve been stuck with it ever since, except for marginal niche alternatives.

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#64
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capslock is an Escape key for me because I use Vim a lot. I've heard lots of tmux users map it to Control and then configure tmux to use Ctrl+a as the activation mapping, which sounds very useful too.

I have “fd” set to return me to normal mode. I picked this up from Spacemacs, and I actually like it a lot. I even set it up in IntelliJ. Now my capslock is Ctrl. I find that combo to be particularly effective for me.

A default vim mapping is CTRL+[ I use that a lot as it requires the smallest motion of my hands. The fd seems pretty cool as that's even a smaller change. How do you set that in your .vimrc?

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#65
post #45

Author here, weird to see this ancient post on HN :) I now primarily use a WhiteFox True Fox [1] I’ve purchased from Massdrop and customized at work and a Unicomp Sun Unix SpaceSaver [2] at home. The aforementioned HHKB Lite 2 however is still the keyboard I bust out when I’m setting up a new machine or just testing one. It’s handy, light and nearly indestructible. [1]: https://kono.store/products/whitefox-keyboard-k…

I share your love of the Sun keyboard layout. I cut my Unix teeth in part on Sun systems and really miss those keyboards. I would get one of the modern copies, but in my job as an admin, I'm always on Someone Else's Computer and it would just be confusing. Maybe when I retire...

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#66
post #6

There are several Sun to USB adapters if you really want to use an old Sun keyboard on a PC or Mac. There even used to be inline devices that filtered the L1-A /STOP signal. Because if you hit that key on a Sun server console, it paused the whole server.

You can get a Sun type 6 keyboard with native USB, no adapter required. [1] I went through a few over the years before giving up on "new old stock" because they had a tendency to fail. As I recall we have IBM to thank for the Ctrl/capslock swap. The IBM PC keyboard featured that change and was a carry over from the selectric typewriter and possibly other IBM terminal keyboards. It was very annoying for those of us wi…

Sun Type 6 USB is my favorite keyboard, ever. I was thrilled to find that the keymapping to Mac OS was sane. Disappointed that the special keys on the left hand side did not produce scan codes for the Mac to recognize.

It has a soft yet firm keypress feel, one which I have never felt in any other keyboard before. And most importantly, it has Control in the right place, as a proper Unix keyboard would.

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#68
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capslock is an Escape key for me because I use Vim a lot. I've heard lots of tmux users map it to Control and then configure tmux to use Ctrl+a as the activation mapping, which sounds very useful too.

I have “fd” set to return me to normal mode. I picked this up from Spacemacs, and I actually like it a lot. I even set it up in IntelliJ. Now my capslock is Ctrl. I find that combo to be particularly effective for me.

I use to use “jk” for this. I stopped because several vim emulators, evil specifically, did not support this.

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#69
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need any extra software to map Caps to Esc on X11: Just enable the caps:escape option. In context: https://github.com/majewsky/system-configuration/blob/6c4478...

You can also use xmodmap [1]. My xmodmap file has things like: ! Make Caps Lock be Escape and Scroll Lock be Caps Lock remove Lock = Caps_Lock keysym Caps_Lock = Escape remove Lock = Scroll_Lock keysym Scroll_Lock = Caps_Lock add Lock = Caps_Lock After reading this post, I also reverted backspace and bar/backslash: keysym BackSpace = backslash bar keysym backslash = BackSpace [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/…

XKB options have the advantage of also being understood by Wayland compositors.

Re: The Joys of Unix Keyboards

#70

Any pointers to a unix-layout ergonomic keyboard? Bonus points for mechanical switches..

There are not many mechanical ergo keyboards that are pre-assembled. Most boards that you assemble yourself use QMK keyboard firmware, which you can map however you like.

This one is probably my favorite: https://github.com/foostan/crkbd

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