How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#61

Post by chrissnell » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 5:01 AM UTC

samstave wrote: post #2

Hmm... I have three children - and all are intelligent, beautiful well adjusted kids. 5, 7, and 15. One thing I made a point of as each was born - I maintained as much physica contact with each immediately after birth. I didnt allow them to leave or be examined without me there, touching them. I did it not for the posted reasons, but just beacuse it felt right to me. ALso - I would hum and sing to them a tune while t…

Reading, too. My wife and I read to our two boys when she was pregnant with them and they loved book time almost immediately, even though they slept through it for the first month or two.

Fast forward and we have one 4 and one 7 years old and they are obsessed with reading and would do it every waking hour if we'd let them.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#62

Post by SachaMichel » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 5:34 AM UTC

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #60

The epigenome isn't some mystical thing, it's just a manifestation of the environment on cellular function. These kinds of sensationalist articles are exquisitely frustrating as a genomicist.

The article never claims that it's mystical...why do you say it's sensationalist?

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#63

Post by badestrand » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 5:35 AM UTC

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #60

The epigenome isn't some mystical thing, it's just a manifestation of the environment on cellular function. These kinds of sensationalist articles are exquisitely frustrating as a genomicist.

You need to give that knowledge time to spread. The vast majority of living adults learned in school that the DNA is fixed and the surrounding stuff is just junk. Eventually everyone will know about epigenetics but how else would you spread the information if not with articles like these.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#64

Post by manmal » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #60

The epigenome isn't some mystical thing, it's just a manifestation of the environment on cellular function. These kinds of sensationalist articles are exquisitely frustrating as a genomicist.

How long are epigenetic changes supposed to last? Do changes caused by trauma last longer than slower changes?

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#65

Post by pauljurczak » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 5:37 AM UTC

m0zg wrote: post #59

jbuzbee wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's another magical experience. No one will believe it, but it's true, so here goes. We too would read, sing and hum to my son in-womb. While doing so, we'd occasionally hear a loud click, the source of which we couldn't determine. But after he was born, we found out. He would press his tongue hard against the roof of his mouth then release it with a suction "pop". Was he trying to communicate back to us from the…

I don't think this would work without air.

Maybe it can. It's called cavitation.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#66

Post by throwaway010718 » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 5:48 AM UTC

IIRC DNA methylation (sp?) is used in blood tests to determine the rate at which you are aging biologically. This article does claim that the children who are touched less develop at a slower in addition to having a lower DNA methylation. So in a sense, the less a child is touched, the slower the child ages biologically according to this marker and observation.

Anecdotally, there are environmental situations where animals can significantly increase life-expectancy but at the expense of delayed sexual maturity.

It would be interesting, but of course not conclusive, to see if these children experience puberty later and if they also live longer. Perhaps some neglect has some benefit.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#67

Post by blowski » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 6:00 AM UTC

throwaway010718 wrote: post #66

IIRC DNA methylation (sp?) is used in blood tests to determine the rate at which you are aging biologically. This article does claim that the children who are touched less develop at a slower in addition to having a lower DNA methylation. So in a sense, the less a child is touched, the slower the child ages biologically according to this marker and observation. Anecdotally, there are environmental situations where an…

That would make a good sci-fi - an army of sociopaths that live until they’re 200 years old.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#68

Post by pgt » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 6:11 AM UTC

throwaway010718 wrote: post #66

IIRC DNA methylation (sp?) is used in blood tests to determine the rate at which you are aging biologically. This article does claim that the children who are touched less develop at a slower in addition to having a lower DNA methylation. So in a sense, the less a child is touched, the slower the child ages biologically according to this marker and observation. Anecdotally, there are environmental situations where an…

Being touched is an undeniable signal you are surrounded by the tribe, which triggers the reproductive sequence, since it takes a village to raise a child.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#69

Post by adrianN » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

pauljurczak wrote: post #65

m0zg wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this would work without air.

Maybe it can. It's called cavitation.

Are fetal tongues strong enough to induce cavitation? Are fetal mouths strong enough not to be shredded by cavitation bubbles collapsing? AFAIK cavitation kills a ship's screw sooner or later.

Re: How much a baby is touched leaves measurable effects on DNA methylation (2017)

#70

Post by rawland » Mon, Dec 09, 2019, 6:42 AM UTC

Actual study this article is referencing:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/development-and-psyc...

Abstract:

Animal models of early postnatal mother–infant interactions have highlighted the importance of tactile contact for biobehavioral outcomes via the modification of DNA methylation (DNAm). The role of normative variation in contact in early human development has yet to be explored. In an effort to translate the animal work on tactile contact to humans, we applied a naturalistic daily diary strategy to assess the link between maternal contact with infants and epigenetic signatures in children 4–5 years later, with respect to multiple levels of child-level factors, including genetic variation and infant distress. We first investigated DNAm at four candidate genes: the glucocorticoid receptor gene, nuclear receptor subfamily 3, group C, member 1 (NR3C1), μ-opioid receptor M1 (OPRM1) and oxytocin receptor (OXTR; related to the neurobiology of social bonds), and brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF; involved in postnatal plasticity). Although no candidate gene DNAm sites significantly associated with early postnatal contact, when we next examined DNAm across the genome, differentially methylated regions were identified between high and low contact groups. Using a different application of epigenomic information, we also quantified epigenetic age, and report that for infants who received low contact from caregivers, greater infant distress was associated with younger epigenetic age. These results suggested that early postnatal contact has lasting associations with child biology.