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Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

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Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#61

Post by scarface74 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #41
mrtksn wrote: post #13

I am a big fan of iFixit and dig their teardowns just as much as the device releases themselves but their "Companies should prioritize on ease of repair even if it makes the devices less portable and less secure" narrative flips me. I never, ever buy devices for repair purposes or to resell them without bothering to do a factory re-set. The ideal device is one that doesn't need a repair and I do not accept for my dev…

It's not especially shocking that the people doing repairs are the people talking about repairability. And you're taking it from the perspective of someone buying a new device from Apple who doesn't care about anybody else. Consider the perspective of a low income person who would otherwise buy a refurbished phone which will now be unavailable or more expensive, or the environmental perspective of having to manufactu…

No, that person would be able buy a refurbished phone from a source like Gazelle that insures that the rightful owner has deactivated the phone and knows that it isn’t stolen.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#62

Post by a0zU »

crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

I understand what you're saying but the problem is that Apple can fix this and make it easy for refurbishers but difficult for thieves without much difficulty at all.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#63

Post by EpicBlackCrayon »

mrtksn wrote: post #13

I am a big fan of iFixit and dig their teardowns just as much as the device releases themselves but their "Companies should prioritize on ease of repair even if it makes the devices less portable and less secure" narrative flips me. I never, ever buy devices for repair purposes or to resell them without bothering to do a factory re-set. The ideal device is one that doesn't need a repair and I do not accept for my dev…

> I think they are stuck in the "When you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" mentality. I see a similarly annoying tone in the more techie social media personalities too, they don't just explain what's not working for them, they actually lecture the engineers that made this thing.

Fair point.

>The number of followers is not an engineering degree’s GPA. It is like a flavour of anti-intellectualism.

I disagree here though. The engineers and product managers who make this stuff are often so detached from what's going on the ground or how people are actually using these products that someone who speaks for the layman is truly needed. There's also a wide variety of tech influencers out there, some who make cogent arguments about the product (Dieter Bohn comes to mind) and others who parrot those arguments absently mindedly. That latter group could conceivable be called anti-intellectual.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#64

Post by ndesaulniers »

> When asked what could be done, Schindler suggests Apple implement a bypass that would allow certified recyclers and refurbishers to unlock donated devices if they’re not reported lost or stolen.

> In cases when a device is lost or stolen, Schindler says he’s more than happy to hand it off to law enforcement in order to find the owner, but that’s a rare occurrence.

Huh, yeah, because that could never be abused, and all refurbishers are ethical and not incentivized to claim willful ignorance in order to profit from the sale of stolen goods, right?

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#66

Post by izacus »

jedberg wrote: post #38

You can't make a security feature with a backdoor, or it's not security feature anymore. I'm with Apple on this. They really have no way of knowing that you're selling/giving away the phone, so they can't have the phone tell you to unlock. That's really on the buyer. They need to know about getting the seller to reset. Right now Sprint is running a deal where they give you a new phone if you turn in the old one. In v…

> You can't make a security feature with a backdoor, or it's not security feature anymore.

Why are you so 100% sure that there's no way that Apple could design a system to keep it secure and allow recycling? There's hundreds of ways they could design their security flow where recycling is possible.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#67

Post by AWildC182 »

aeturnum wrote: post #21
crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

It would be simple for apple to extend the system by allowing recyclers to ask apple to send a message to the previous owner of the device. This would be extremely pro-consumer, because it would allow lost devices to be returned via an official channel. It would also allow users to release their claims on hardware they meant to give away. The "solution" of just expecting the previous owner to never make a mistake is…

And while this is a nice thought, it will never happen. Apple hates 3rd parties that touch their hardware. They're constantly at war with those trying to repair their devices and the right-to-repair movement.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#68

Post by meddlin »

crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

No. Simply no.

What is stopping a "criminal" from bypassing this activation lock? Time and technical ability? It surely isn't legal recourse or fear of losing the device. It's a matter of time before this is moot.

On top of that, I've left "criminal" in quotes because quite frankly, I don't care if Apple claims breaking this lock is a breach of DMCA, ToS, or anything else. I've paid for the device. It's mine. The data on it is mine. If I want something out of it bad enough, I'm getting to it. Regardless of their corporate philosophy.

On recycling, this is likely a step away from being generally responsible. Apple already has locks in place preventing parts from "non-genuine" repair shops being used. In addition they engineer components to be tightly-coupled to one another. Now they want to lock the entire device?

At best, this can be argued as "pro-customer", but not pro-consumer. Apple has made good decisions in the past; this isn't one of them.

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#69

Post by meddlin »

fortran77 wrote: post #26
crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

They'll still get value from it. Some crackhead will steal your phone and it can be parted out to use the screen, the glass, the case, etc., even if it can't be activated again. It may be worth $20 instead of $150 to him, but he'll still steal it.

If Apple continues this trend, they can place barriers to parting it out as well. It won't remove all the value, but these practices force everyone to lose.

https://www.ifixit.com/News/apple-is-locking-batteries-to-ip...

Re: Apple’s Activation Lock Will Make It Difficult to Refurbish Macs

#70

Post by 293984j29384 »

meddlin wrote: post #68
crazygringo wrote: post #5

I'm entirely on Apple's side here. It makes me very happy, as a consumer, knowing that if someone steals my phone, they can't get any value out of it. I don't want them to be able to sell it to a refurbisher for cash. And I don't want them to be able to do it with my laptop either. And for refurbishers, it's not hard to make it an obvious required step for anyone looking to sell their own legitimately-owned phone. Yo…

No. Simply no. What is stopping a "criminal" from bypassing this activation lock? Time and technical ability? It surely isn't legal recourse or fear of losing the device. It's a matter of time before this is moot. On top of that, I've left "criminal" in quotes because quite frankly, I don't care if Apple claims breaking this lock is a breach of DMCA, ToS, or anything else. I've paid for the device. It's mine. The dat…

While I agree with the overall idea behind your post, your assumption that the activation lock can be defeated by sheer git and determination is silly. If implemented correctly (and I have no idea if it will be) it's very likely that it won't be bypassed.
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