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Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

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Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#61

Post by goatinaboat »

netcan wrote: post #45
netcan wrote: post #36

Currently, with the way labour organising works... it seems to either go nowhere, or go into a (belligerent) dichotomy. Professional organizers themselves often see it as an entirely dichotomous, zero-sum game, an inevitable conflict between opposite interests. Overall I'm curious about unions. I haven't had much/any direct experience for >20 years. Most of the Union examples we have today are either public-ish secto…

Just to put some practical meat on it... salaries. Iirc, unions typically insist on a strict payscale/structure combining legible factors like seniority, position, etc. Would they want this.

Iirc, unions typically insist on a strict payscale/structure combining legible factors like seniority, position, etc. Would they want this.

People keep saying this but it doesn’t have to be true e.g. Hollywood unions cover everyone from extras to stars.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#62

Post by richthegeek »

idlewords wrote: post #25
sunstone wrote: post #2

So Google really has hit the nadir of the wall that Microsoft hit when Gates testified before the Justice department. It's a tough day for all of us Google fan boys but it's time to look in the mirror and carefully consider the current reality.

What is the nadir of a wall? The baseboard?

What is the point of pedantry? The base instinct?

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#63

Post by scarface74 »

thundergolfer wrote: post #22
sjdycucudn3 wrote: post #13

So google expects employees to behave like professionals?

This comment seems in bad-faith, but in case it's not, what is unprofessional about the behaviour described in the article, exactly?

The article is one sided. Other commenters have said that the fired employees were actually doing some creepy stuff according to other articles.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#64

Post by flir »

9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #34
throwawaylolx wrote: post #26

This article is ranked 16th on HN first page right now, and it has 80 points, was posted 4 hours ago, and has 16 comments. A different article [1] is ranked 8th on HN right now, and it has 31 points, was also posted 4 hours ago and it has 18 comments. They were both posted about the same time, they have the same number of comments, but the article that has significantly more points is ranked significantly lower. If I…

Well before going full conspiracy, I believe a lot of tech people are anti union themselves compared to some other fields. I'm not one of them but as long as there is demand like right now for programmers, the conditions and pay is good.

> for programmers, the conditions and pay is good.

Whatever happened with that anti-poaching agreement the big SV companies had? Because it seems to me the pay and conditions would be a lot better in a truly free market.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#65

Post by pjmlp »

michaelcampbell wrote: post #57
pjmlp wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I don't get how people can get into "don't be evil" and other kind of corporate propaganda.

How many years now has that NOT been a thing?

It was never a thing to begin with.

Anyone that believed it was only deluding themselves.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#66

Post by Causality1 »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #26

This article is ranked 16th on HN first page right now, and it has 80 points, was posted 4 hours ago, and has 16 comments. A different article [1] is ranked 8th on HN right now, and it has 31 points, was also posted 4 hours ago and it has 18 comments. They were both posted about the same time, they have the same number of comments, but the article that has significantly more points is ranked significantly lower. If I…

There's definitely a thumb on the scales. I've found that controversial comments of mine that go up and down a lot in point totals are much more likely to trigger the mysterious "you're posting too fast" message even hours after my last comment.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#67

Post by Frondo »

netcan wrote: post #45
netcan wrote: post #36

Currently, with the way labour organising works... it seems to either go nowhere, or go into a (belligerent) dichotomy. Professional organizers themselves often see it as an entirely dichotomous, zero-sum game, an inevitable conflict between opposite interests. Overall I'm curious about unions. I haven't had much/any direct experience for >20 years. Most of the Union examples we have today are either public-ish secto…

Just to put some practical meat on it... salaries. Iirc, unions typically insist on a strict payscale/structure combining legible factors like seniority, position, etc. Would they want this.

A google union, or any tech union, can arrange whatever compensation scale it wants. Every union is a democratic organization, structured however its members want it to be structured.

There is no reason a tech union would have a strict seniority-based pay scale.

A tech union could do things like insist on better work/life balance, a seat at the board representing worker interests, you name it. A google-specific union could insist on bringing the 20% "work on your own thing" scheme back, for example.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#68

Post by jeen02 »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #26

This article is ranked 16th on HN first page right now, and it has 80 points, was posted 4 hours ago, and has 16 comments. A different article [1] is ranked 8th on HN right now, and it has 31 points, was also posted 4 hours ago and it has 18 comments. They were both posted about the same time, they have the same number of comments, but the article that has significantly more points is ranked significantly lower. If I…

Because the article title is extremely clickbaity and wrong. They fired four people because they were repeatedly breaking privacy policies and leaking documents.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#69

Post by mmcwilliams »

dataduck wrote: post #27

There has been quite a lot of noise on HN about this, and many of the other posts have disappeared, perhaps in an attempt to stop the whole front page getting swamped by this story. You can find the other links here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastWeek&page=0&prefix=fal... I wouldn't normally bother, but the medium article is about the least balanced of the lot. As far as I can tell, the protesters weren't fir…

It’s a violation of the NLRA to fire employees for organizing, so it makes a lot of sense that the reasons given for their termination would be something other than “you’re fired for unionizing”. I’ve read the other articles linked in this thread and there’s not much by way of evidence on either side besides Google’s statements but it’s naive to think that the company would outright say that they were violating federal labor laws even if they were.

Re: Google’s fires four organizers after hiring union-busting firm

#70

Post by chimprich »

jeen02 wrote: post #68
throwawaylolx wrote: post #26

This article is ranked 16th on HN first page right now, and it has 80 points, was posted 4 hours ago, and has 16 comments. A different article [1] is ranked 8th on HN right now, and it has 31 points, was also posted 4 hours ago and it has 18 comments. They were both posted about the same time, they have the same number of comments, but the article that has significantly more points is ranked significantly lower. If I…

Because the article title is extremely clickbaity and wrong. They fired four people because they were repeatedly breaking privacy policies and leaking documents.

They fired four people, who allege they were fired for union activity. Google claim they were fired for privacy violations. It's not clear at this point who is correct. Either party might be correct, or both might be to some degree. I'm interested in HN's perspective.
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