Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

repubblica.it

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 144 posts

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#61

Post by Analemma_ »

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #48
aisengard wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the story was that the Soviet Union was spying on its allies. Klaus Fuchs went to jail. All of this is pretty much accepted statecraft. Are we supposed to think that something _went wrong_ when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying and went to jail? That's what happens to spies who are caught. Hence Assange.

With the important difference being that Assange is not a spy. Edit: Downvoted for pointing out that Assange is not a spy. I'm honestly surprised by HN.

That's actually very questionable. It's pretty clear by now that at the very least he's a Russian intelligence asset.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#62

Post by mindslight »

jhayward wrote: post #53
mindslight wrote: post #37

Good, right? I mean, if he really is some Russian asset rather than a straightforward political opposition journalist, they would have obtained loads of evidence to substantiate this. So, where is it?

It's where they keep all the other evidence of foreign intelligence operations - a secure classified intelligence facility. Where should they be keeping it?

Presumably they would pass some of it to the NYT and other government mouthpieces, rather than leaving them to innuendo.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#63

Post by catalogia »

farisjarrah wrote: post #60
ttul wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country. Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

This doesn't make sense to me, please educate me as to what I am missing. Why is the United States within its rights to gather intelligence within the Ecuadorian Embassy within England? It seems like embassies of foreign countries, not located within the US's borders means that the US government has no legal rights to any of that. To me it looks like the US violated the rights of not just Ecuador's sovereignty, but a…

Basically, people have rights only insofar as governments consider that a convenient arrangement.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#64

Post by stefan_ »

darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Intelligence agencies spying on an Australian? Of course!

Any of that finding its way into a prosecutors stack of documents and informing police action? That's how you build the Geheime Staatspolizei aka Gestapo.

See also: Parallel construction

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#65

Post by jirjidjf »

lawn wrote: post #22
thierryzoller wrote: post #19

omg ... is it me or are the HackerNews comments starting to deteriorate.

It's not just you, and it's been going on a while.

The natural result of autodead comments. Heavy mod censorship. The inability to speak about mod censorship.

And of course HN kowtows to US surveillance interests. Some accounts get special privileges and vote brigades are allowed by some. Finally those against such interests such as Snowden or Assange get special treatment.

Having an open, fair, unbiased, uncensored discussion or such issues on HN is impossible.

My comment will never be seen.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#66

Post by 77pt77 »

tspiteri wrote: post #17
darawk wrote: post #6

Of course they were. Julian Assange's explicit mission was to expose US (and other) intelligence secrets. If they weren't spying on him and his visitors they'd be derelict in their most basic of duties. I don't even know why this is a story. I don't mind Assange, and I think the counterpoint he created to state power was good, but the idea that the state shouldn't spy on him in turn is ludicrous.

Using that reasoning, there was no story when Klaus Fuchs was caught spying on the Manhattan Project for the Soviet Union: Of course the Soviet Union intelligence were spying on the Manhattan Project, if they weren't spying on it they'de be derelict in their most basic of duties.

BTW, Fuchs died of old age.

That's the most surprising thing in that story as far as I'm concerned.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#67

Post by 77pt77 »

kick wrote: post #54
roywiggins wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange isn't American, isn't on American soil, and people in his position have been fair game for surveillance for approximately the entire existence of America. George Washington personally ran a spy ring: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-revolution...

It says that all men are endowed these rights by a creator, which doesn't imply that nationality has anything to do with those rights. George Washington was the worst of the Founding Fathers, and didn't write the Declaration of Independence.

Which one was the best in your opinion?

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#68

Post by 77pt77 »

catalogia wrote: post #63
farisjarrah wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't make sense to me, please educate me as to what I am missing. Why is the United States within its rights to gather intelligence within the Ecuadorian Embassy within England? It seems like embassies of foreign countries, not located within the US's borders means that the US government has no legal rights to any of that. To me it looks like the US violated the rights of not just Ecuador's sovereignty, but a…

Basically, people have rights only insofar as governments consider that a convenient arrangement.

Or in other words, rights only exist when both parties have a similar level of power.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#69

Post by cma »

kick wrote: post #54
roywiggins wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange isn't American, isn't on American soil, and people in his position have been fair game for surveillance for approximately the entire existence of America. George Washington personally ran a spy ring: https://www.mountvernon.org/george-washington/the-revolution...

It says that all men are endowed these rights by a creator, which doesn't imply that nationality has anything to do with those rights. George Washington was the worst of the Founding Fathers, and didn't write the Declaration of Independence.

Jefferson refused to recognize Haiti as an independent republic.

Re: Julian Assange and visitors were spied on by security firm for US intelligence

#70

Post by threeseed »

farisjarrah wrote: post #60
ttul wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right to attorney-client confidentiality does not apply in the context of national security intelligence gathering. The United States was within its rights to gather intelligence about a foreign person in a foreign country. Such intelligence would be absolutely inadmissible in court. But intelligence agencies aren't interested in prosecuting people. They are tasked with national security, not prosecution.

This doesn't make sense to me, please educate me as to what I am missing. Why is the United States within its rights to gather intelligence within the Ecuadorian Embassy within England? It seems like embassies of foreign countries, not located within the US's borders means that the US government has no legal rights to any of that. To me it looks like the US violated the rights of not just Ecuador's sovereignty, but a…

Curious what you think intelligence agencies actually do.

Do you think the US/Israel respected Iranian law when they infiltrated nuclear facilities ? How about all of the Russian poisoning in the UK ? And I don't believe all of the various drones are qualified to operate in their respective airspaces.

Post reply on HN