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My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

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Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#61

Post by dec0dedab0de »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

I love Python. Throughout my life I tried learning many languages, and Python is the only one that really stuck, and was able to do useful things. Learning Python changed my life, in 5 years my salary more than doubled, and for the last 5 years I've been a full time developer. A coworker likes to say that I think in Python.

That said, I 100% agree. I don't have the answer, except that I wish that there was one official answer, for developers and deployment that was easy to explain to beginners.

For what it's worth I've been using pipenv for over a year and it works good enough. I think npm's approach is better, but not perfect. I've heard good things about yarn. I know CPAN is the grandfather of all of them. I've barely used gems but they seem like magic, and Go get your repo URI out of my code please and thank you. :-) All fun aside, what languages have it right? and is there maybe a way to come up with a unified language dependency manger?

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#62

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

Evidlo wrote: post #37

For those new or unfamiliar with python, I think the best solution is the simplest: pip and virtualenv

pip and virtualenv are my preferred solution too because they are simple and easy to use.

However, you can run into issues if you are using different versions of Python, or Python on different operating systems.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#63

Post by dmurray »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

For me the biggest problem is C-based python modules that can't just be installed in your virtual environment but want to be part of the global installation.

Tkinter and mpi4py are the most recent ones I've had this problem with. I expect someone will tell me "it's trivial to install these in a venv, just do X", but X is not obvious to me.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#64

Post by kovek »

zmmmmm wrote: post #35
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

Just spent ~1 hour trying to set up a working python environment .... so yes. It's in the classic phase where it has an ecosystem with a bunch of problems that are small enough that they aren't being tackled comprehensively by the core language, but large enough that n different solutions are being created in parallel by different groups. The result is an explosion in complexity for anybody just trying to get their j…

I've spent the whole weekend on dealing with Python, and now this evening and probably a few evenings to come.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#65

Post by ianai »

marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

I read it as a symptom of a very active project. It’s being taken to new places daily and independently. It might be somewhat like all the various Linux distributions. Somewhat overwhelming from the outside but in practice not so much.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#66

Post by throwawayjava »

thesuperbigfrog wrote: post #54
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

I think it really comes down to Python not having a chosen way to handle package management as well as Python being dependent on the underlying C libraries and compilers for the given platform. Since Python did not prescribe a way to handle it the community has invented multiple competing ways to solve the problem, most of which have shortcomings in one way or another. To further add to the confusion, most Linux and…

> There is also usually no "system Java", so there is nothing to break along those lines.

Oh, but there is :( `jenv shell 1.8` is muscle memory for me now.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#68

Post by radicallib »

Is this developer actually relevant? Who cares what their stack is. It sounds like more marketing over substance.

If the developer of click or flask explains their stack, yes, I will listen. Not sure why I care about a non-developer explaining hipster tools to me that are not what people are using.

Re: My Python Development Environment, 2020 Edition

#69

Post by heyoni »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #61
marmada wrote: post #31

Does anyone else think this reflects badly on Python? The fact that the author has to use a bunch of different tools to manage Python versions/projects is intimidating. I don't say this out of negativity for the sake of negativity. Earlier today, I was trying to resurrect an old Python project that was using pipenv. "pipenv install" gave me an error about accepting 1 argument, but 3 were provided. Then I switched to…

I love Python. Throughout my life I tried learning many languages, and Python is the only one that really stuck, and was able to do useful things. Learning Python changed my life, in 5 years my salary more than doubled, and for the last 5 years I've been a full time developer. A coworker likes to say that I think in Python. That said, I 100% agree. I don't have the answer, except that I wish that there was one offici…

Basically this. Every tool does the same thing slightly differently and all run into different variations of the exact same problem. Is your interpreter in your path? Do you have the right version of your modules installed?

Technically, OP didn’t have to use pipenv for anything except knowing which versions of each dependency to install (Pipfile.lock) with good old pip. Those other tools are mere conveniences. Giving up on a language for that...that’s drastic.

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