So... I’m skeptical of the claims that we automatically believe what we hear. Especially when they use Milgram as support.
You can fool some of the people, all of the time
61–70 of 229 posts
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…
Historically, monarchy’s seem to be more stable and result in less open warfare (civil wars). The US did not even last 90 years before the first civil war. A rather large number of democracies have fallen and been replaced with dictatorship. Democracies have other benefits, but stability does not seem to be one of them. PS: I am ignoring assassinations and power struggles as we have lost 4 sitting US presidents witho…
Many suffer silently under monarchy's. And democracies require an educated and relatively honest, or homogenous society to function. If people can't agree on fundamentals--even to disagree peacefully--then there's no hope.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
"The only two benefits of democracy..." In my opinion the one major benefit of democracy over all other forms is that a terrible leader can be voted away within 4 years. It's a political system with garbage collection :)
If terrible leaders could be voted away there would be no politicians in power.
If we go on a tangent and debate leadership, I agree that the current crop of leadership examples are pretty bleak around the world. What makes a good political leader? Are there examples in the past of objectively good leaders? Is it always at the expense of the neighbouring tribe and what happens when your hood is planet-scale?
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#64Yay politics.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#65My pet theory is that democracy is more tolerable because it alternates between incompetent people fast enough to keep people's hopes alive.
Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…
>> The only problem is that the warring factions know this and will do everything they can to conceal the reality of the situation so that the people do not exercise the power that they have. And they have been very successful at it. The amount of people who believe that democracy is somehow inherently good for the people is beyond my belief.
Democracy is neither evil nor good. It is just a popularity contest. Merit doesn't matter - only popularity does.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. > (...) >Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. Leaving rebuttal of your other points aside, can you see how that is not the same thing at all ? It's like claiming "a plane is nothing more than a system which can move through the air the same way a boat can move t…
> Compared to ruling by force, yes, democracy is inherently good for the people I don't understand why people here see democratic system as a replacement for ruling by a force. Democratic countries also rule by force in the end. Democratic countries also need polices, guns, armies, prisons, tax inspectors, prosecutors etc. Those same institutions are also the tools for dictatorships, they are just governed in a diffe…
Dictatorships rely solely on force. Democracies mostly rely on a common agreement to follow a social contract. There’s not nearly enough police in the US to quell a rebellion of the people if they lost faith in Democracy.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…
"The only two benefits of democracy..." In my opinion the one major benefit of democracy over all other forms is that a terrible leader can be voted away within 4 years. It's a political system with garbage collection :)
If only it worked that way.
Under democracy you optimize for just a single metric - popularity. If leader is terrible and popular no garbage collection will occur.
Rise of populism is inherently built into nature of democracy itself.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#68If most people are hard-wired to be duped, why does it feel like only recently people are getting even more conspicuously duped by their political leaders (a la Trump and Johnson)? Presumably this effect should have had a more uniformly distributed effect throughout history. Is it solely due to the weaponization of technology for this means? Or are there other reasons for “why now”?
> only recently
Internet is probably part of it. You couldn't spread so much BS so far/fast/cheap even 30 years ago.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. > (...) >Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. Leaving rebuttal of your other points aside, can you see how that is not the same thing at all ? It's like claiming "a plane is nothing more than a system which can move through the air the same way a boat can move t…
> Compared to ruling by force, yes, democracy is inherently good for the people I don't understand why people here see democratic system as a replacement for ruling by a force. Democratic countries also rule by force in the end. Democratic countries also need polices, guns, armies, prisons, tax inspectors, prosecutors etc. Those same institutions are also the tools for dictatorships, they are just governed in a diffe…
The relevant word isn’t “force” it’s “consent”.
All forms of government to some extent or another have to maintain a monopoly on legal violence and use force.
The distinction with democracy is that the government secures and maintains the consent of those being governed.
Re: You can fool some of the people, all of the time
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Democracy is nothing more than a system that replaces swords/bullets with votes. That's it. The fight for power (aka. resources) it inescapable and the only thing that democracy did, was to change the field that this fight is fought on. Democracy is more tolerable because no people die (in the open) when the landscape of power changes. The only two benefits of democracy to "the people" are: (1) the fact that they hav…
Historically, monarchy’s seem to be more stable and result in less open warfare (civil wars). The US did not even last 90 years before the first civil war. A rather large number of democracies have fallen and been replaced with dictatorship. Democracies have other benefits, but stability does not seem to be one of them. PS: I am ignoring assassinations and power struggles as we have lost 4 sitting US presidents witho…
> Historically, monarchy’s seem to be more stable and result in less open warfare.
How did you come to that conclusion? It seems like ahistorical nonsense to me.