It’s the End of California as We Know It • Hacker News Board

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#61

Post by StudentStuff » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:07 AM UTC

gduffy wrote: post #32

jdhn wrote: post #8

To paraphrase James Carville, "It's the people, stupid". It seems like there's a lot of Californians who talk about sustainability, but then turn right around and vote in people who continue to promote suburban sprawl, single family houses, zoning that doesn't promote density, and lack of investment in public transportation.

No offense, but your thinking here is actually a bigger part of the problem. There is nothing fundamentally unsustainable about suburbs, single family homes, low density, or cars. 50% of the USA is totally uninhabited, and it is possible today to build a totally off-grid and sustainable single family home / suburb in the majority of it. You can even capture carbon in concrete. Don't prescribe solutions just because y…

Paving our best farmland is not sustainable, nor is deluding yourself that we can capture carbon at anywhere near the rate needed to prevent severe change in our weather patterns.

US suburbs are heavily subsidized with federal dollars[1], this is a huge reason why PGE can't effectively maintain the infrastructure in California. The ratepayers & tax base cannot afford to repipe a suburban neighborhood when the water service lines hit end of design life, let alone repaving, maintaining gas, electrical service, telecom & cable[2]. This is also why Fiber buildouts are so uncommon in suburbs (for-profit companies won't make their money back within a decade).

We have designed an extremely expensive mousetrap of suburbia where you get degrading public services (as maintenance & replacement bills accrue and go unmet), nearly mandatory car ownership, and higher rates of health problems caused by the poor design of these neighborhoods[3].

1 - https://www.theamericanconservative.com/urbs/we-have-always-...

2 - https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2018/9/27/a-texas-sized-...

3 - https://www.webmd.com/women/news/20040927/suburbs-may-be-haz...

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#62

Post by beauzero » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:08 AM UTC

davidscolgan wrote: post #5

I'm a freelance web developer from rural Indiana and want to move somewhere in the US I can at least possibly stay for a decade or more. Does anyone recommend a city/state that will survive the climate apocalypse, that is well managed, and/or that is doing everything the author of this article is saying California isn't doing? I've had a hard time figuring out where to live since I don't have to be anywhere in partic…

Atlanta, rent for the first couple years until you are established, start working remote and then move to the country. Also Raleigh, NC. Both have excellent tech pay/cost of living ratios and robust contracting opportunities.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#63

Post by roenxi » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:09 AM UTC

Ididntdothis wrote: post #58

roenxi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What fundamental problems? Compared to the majority of human civilisations and most of human history the US is a utopia. It isn't perfect, but the people claiming they are 'trying to to fix fundamental problems' are potentially more of a threat than the problems themselves. But predicting the end of times is fun and I'll throw in a take. The US as a nation is fabulously wealthy. That obscures the importance of wealth…

Would you not call the health care situation a fundamental problem? A large portion of society is at constant risk of financial ruin if they have a serious illness, a lot of of people stay in their jobs mainly to keep their insurance which reduces entrepreneurial activity and a lot of people can’t afford any health care. I would call that a problem that other countries already have solved. I don’t like it when people…

A large portion of society is at constant risk of death if they have a serious illness. The range of things people can recover from in 2019 is astounding.

There are always going to be good uses for resources poured into healthcare. It is, without exaggeration, a bottomless pit of ways to spend money. The US does a terrible job of managing healthcare but that is not a fundamental problem; it is horrible but superficial. They could probably get double the quality for the money spent, or halve spending for the same outcome or something. However, there will always be something else needed in healthcare. The goalpost will shift as it has many times before.

> I don’t like it when people are told how good they have it compared to other countries or people in the past. It sounds very condescending. This line is also never used to tell wealthy executives or shareholders ...

In my post that you responded to I am advocating leaving executives and shareholders penniless, ruined and subject to lawsuits. That is what I wanted to happen after '08. Maybe I was too subtle in my allusion.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#64

Post by beamatronic » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:21 AM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #27

Ididntdothis wrote: post #6

Somehow I feel this is not only a California problem but the whole US. The country seems to be incapable of or unwilling to address fundamental problems. Instead you are getting endless political fights while infrastructure is falling apart. The contrasts in Silicon Valley and LA are extreme. You have some of the richest people in the world living in beautiful mansions with cities around them full of homeless people,…

Yeah, I'm concerned that what we're seeing around the country is institutional decay. We've been increasingly replacing competence with people who tell us what we want to hear. Entertainment over substance. Short-term, feel good solutions over thoughtful long-term solutions. Now the results of that are starting to manifest.

Is there any place that isn’t like this?

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#65

Post by mokus » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:22 AM UTC

mobilefriendly wrote: post #55

Animats wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of tree trimming and removal. Lots of heavy equipment. Firebreaks a mile wide. More full-time Cal Fire people and equipment. Recycled 747s as water tankers (there's already one.) More underground power lines. Not really that hard.

No, the solution is returning to the natural regular burns that are part of the ecosystem in California. Zero tolerance fire-fighting is the main issue at hand, as it builds up kindling to infernos.

And controlled burns. The land WILL burn - why would we NOT let it burn at a time of our choosing, such as the middle of the rainy season when we have the best control over it?

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#66

Post by ars » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:27 AM UTC

mobilefriendly wrote: post #55

Animats wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of tree trimming and removal. Lots of heavy equipment. Firebreaks a mile wide. More full-time Cal Fire people and equipment. Recycled 747s as water tankers (there's already one.) More underground power lines. Not really that hard.

No, the solution is returning to the natural regular burns that are part of the ecosystem in California. Zero tolerance fire-fighting is the main issue at hand, as it builds up kindling to infernos.

Those burns release a lot of pollution and CO2. I've always wondered if it was possible to collect the brush and dry plants and burn them more usefully for energy.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#67

Post by WalterSear » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

solidasparagus wrote: post #30

It's funny because having lived outside of the US, it has always blown my mind how extraordinarily well California/the US handles natural disasters like wildfires. The worst wildfire season ever in a state of 40M people, 18,000 buildings destroyed and fewer than 100 people died?!? Similarly the infrastructure/public services are quite incredible in the US. I grew up with daily 6 hour blackouts and water brought in by…

Shareholders profiting from a corporations externalizing their costs is not a natural disaster.

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#68

Post by throwawaytoday5 » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:49 AM UTC

baggy_trough wrote: post #33

jdhn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a symptom of one party governance? It's certainly not because of a lack of money or progressiveness. If anything, I would expect that the California state government would be leading in all of these issues.

It's almost as though progressivism and throwing money at problems doesn't really work that well.

I forgot the shinning examples of conservative rule that is Alabama and Mississippi. For all the faults that California has political, it's still an economic powerhouse.

What does Kentucky have?

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#69

Post by symplee » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 3:53 AM UTC

dickeytk wrote: post #40

defterGoose wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always an appropriate time to remember that Rome didn't fall in a day. We seem to be experiencing the proverbial frog-boil IMHO.

that frog only exists within proverbs! real frogs jump out!

Mars and beyond anyone?

Re: It’s the End of California as We Know It

#70

Post by gduffy » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 4:06 AM UTC

StudentStuff wrote: post #61

gduffy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, but your thinking here is actually a bigger part of the problem. There is nothing fundamentally unsustainable about suburbs, single family homes, low density, or cars. 50% of the USA is totally uninhabited, and it is possible today to build a totally off-grid and sustainable single family home / suburb in the majority of it. You can even capture carbon in concrete. Don't prescribe solutions just because y…

Paving our best farmland is not sustainable, nor is deluding yourself that we can capture carbon at anywhere near the rate needed to prevent severe change in our weather patterns. US suburbs are heavily subsidized with federal dollars[1], this is a huge reason why PGE can't effectively maintain the infrastructure in California. The ratepayers & tax base cannot afford to repipe a suburban neighborhood when the water s…

I'm not counting paving farmland, friend. Also, go look up aeroponics and 3D farming.

We don't need PG&E. The sun gives us free energy, and batteries + thermal energy storage can cover the cloudiest of days.

Well-designed suburbs don't need to be subsidized. And they can also be healthier and happier for you and your family (quiet, safe, better air quality, elbow-room, &etc). Just decentralize large cities by building smaller mixed-use "downtowns" surrounded by layers of variable density housing. Single family homes with yards are a part of that.

I'm moving and will be putting this into practice, instead of sitting back and seeing what happens. My cost of living will go down even though I am self-providing all of my family's utilities.

I might even use the savings to build more than just my own needs... creating opportunities for those with less capital to make the same choice to enjoy a better life at an affordable cost.

P.S. I have done the carbon calculations, and burying it in concrete is a good part of a total solution. "Deluding." Hah. A head not in the sand can more easily look in the mirror!