Australia’s Darling River is running dry • Hacker News Board

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#61

Post by asdf21 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

voqv wrote: post #55

Gatsky wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many people in the current government that believe in climate change. The real problem is that the government has surmised (correctly, it would seem) that climate change isn’t an issue that will win an election. That and the fact that pricing carbon was the opposition party’s policy...

They're pressured to improve KPIs of economy and life quality (including employment rates) and that's the complete opposite of what fixing the climate requires.

Are you saying that fixing climate change requires poor life quality for people in Western countries?

Is poor life quality in the West going to stop worldwide deforestation somehow?

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#62

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

missosoup wrote: post #27

computerex wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if what you say is true, one sensationalized article does not mean that the entire climate change issue is hyperbole. The fact is that climate change is a real problem with potentially catastrophic outcome for the human specie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping_points_in_the_climate_... When the stakes are so high, where we are literally risking the future of the human race, I'd definitely lean towards the s…

I don't think GP is saying that climate change itself is hyperbole. The problem is that reporting on both sides is garbage laden with misunderstandings and outright lies. This fuels the anti-climate movement, especially when it's coming from the 'pro' side like in this case. I've been ringing bells about catastrophic climate change since the early 00s after being involved in a relevant research project, I'm the polar…

Do climate change scientists pay hundreds of millions of dollars to climate change PR firms to spread known untruths about climate change?

Is there a network of climate change science think tanks dedicated to framing the climate change debate in a way that benefits the climate change community?

Do climate scientists run social media "consultancies" to make a pro-climate change case on the major social platforms and smaller forums?

If any of the above happen - questionable, but let's pretend - they're at tiny outlier scale compared to the organised lies, smears, denial and general FUD put out by the denialist corporates.

You say you've been warning about catastrophic climate change since the early 00s. What in your opinion would be the best way to counter climate denial PR?

Because clearly simply informing the public of the facts isn't going to do anything against the noise being made by the denialist side.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#63

Post by roenxi » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

Gatsky wrote: post #42

neotek wrote: post #4

Meanwhile we're still voting in governments that don't believe in climate change and which fight tooth and nail to destroy any chance of addressing the problem. No worries giving endless buckets of taxpayer money to climate-denying farmers and coal plants, though.

There are many people in the current government that believe in climate change. The real problem is that the government has surmised (correctly, it would seem) that climate change isn’t an issue that will win an election. That and the fact that pricing carbon was the opposition party’s policy...

> That and the fact that pricing carbon was the opposition party’s policy...

It is somewhat complicated by the fact the the Labor party was tarred by introducing a climate tax after promising not to.

They had a minority government due to some political shenanigans and had to form a loose coalition with the Greens for an electoral cycle. The Greens managed to negotiate in a carbon tax that was not well received. Labor is associated with the policy but their support for it was always tepid.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#64

Post by voqv » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:39 PM UTC

asdf21 wrote: post #61

voqv wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're pressured to improve KPIs of economy and life quality (including employment rates) and that's the complete opposite of what fixing the climate requires.

Are you saying that fixing climate change requires poor life quality for people in Western countries? Is poor life quality in the West going to stop worldwide deforestation somehow?

No, why? Not poor, but maybe involving using cars/tech items for longer times or spend more on locally grown food leaving less for vacation flights etc.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#65

Post by gameswithgo » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

neotek wrote: post #4

Meanwhile we're still voting in governments that don't believe in climate change and which fight tooth and nail to destroy any chance of addressing the problem. No worries giving endless buckets of taxpayer money to climate-denying farmers and coal plants, though.

climate change is not likely even a second order reason as to why this river is drying up. Maybe you and everyone knows that, and this is just an aside about the trouble we have dealing with long term environmental problems as societies?

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#66

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

0xcafecafe wrote: post #12

neotek wrote: post #4

Meanwhile we're still voting in governments that don't believe in climate change and which fight tooth and nail to destroy any chance of addressing the problem. No worries giving endless buckets of taxpayer money to climate-denying farmers and coal plants, though.

That will continue to happen as long as voting/politics remains ideology based rather than issue based.

[deleted]

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#67

Post by moomin » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:45 PM UTC

Australia has a serious problem with water, and it would have a serious problem even without climate change. The water in the Darling, and in any river, can be extracted free of charge if your land includes the river. This produces permanent drought conditions in a country that exports oranges.

Australia has limited water resources and laws that treat it as unlimited. It will be incredibly hard to square that circle. Imagine being told your entire business is toast because Sydney has no drinking water and you’ll have some idea of how toxic it’s going to be _before_ it get politicised.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#68

Post by russdill » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

0xcafecafe wrote: post #12

neotek wrote: post #4

Meanwhile we're still voting in governments that don't believe in climate change and which fight tooth and nail to destroy any chance of addressing the problem. No worries giving endless buckets of taxpayer money to climate-denying farmers and coal plants, though.

That will continue to happen as long as voting/politics remains ideology based rather than issue based.

The first past the post two party systems lock that in.

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#69

Post by thewhitetulip » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:47 PM UTC

lllr_finger wrote: post #7

thewhitetulip wrote: post #5

Can this, by any chance, be averted by planting eco diverse forests??

The article touches on the cause. Planting trees won't help if you use the available water for other things.

That's true, but once the ecosystem is established, we don't drain water, trees cause rain right?

Re: Australia’s Darling River is running dry

#70

Post by rhys91 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

BubRoss wrote: post #45

ssully wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn't even mention the word 'climate', let alone 'climate change'. There are references to last summer being the hottest on record, which is true, or the effects of the drought, but it's not talking about climate change. Get your shit together - you are a perfect example of why the issue is polarized.

If the river always runs dry and the article is not implying anything about climate change, then why does the article exist?

The issue is not related to climate change, but a series of water policies that have favoured farming / agriculture over the environment / community use. In short, too much water being taken upstream.

As an Australian, it baffles me that we're trying to grow cotton and rice in the desert. I personally don't believe that farmers who make poor business decisions should be consistently bailed out by the government. I'd rather we pay for research into drought resistant crops, growing the right produce in the right climates, and failing that, retraining farmers and agri workers into new industries like solar. Lots of sun, not much water.