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No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

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Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#61

Post by clacke2 »

hyperpallium wrote: post #39
im3w1l wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we consider other hominids, we don't know exactly, but it seems we outcompeted them. If we consider more distant animals, because we converted the entire planet to provide for us much faster than they could evolve to catch up with us.

I think that's the "we just happened to be first" argument. Which could be true, but not very satisfying, because no detail.

We didn't have to be first. Other primates might have picked up the rock before we did, but eventually lost the race. Maybe the fire-cooking, rock-throwing domesticating niche is just that competitive.

So it might be more like "we are the ones that remain", but yeah, either variant is a spin on the old weak anthropic principle, which is never quite satisfying.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#62

Post by dennisgorelik »

hyperpallium wrote: post #29

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

> why didn't all animals in the region become intelligent

Because humans took over that "being intelligent" niche and outcompeted everyone else who tried to capitalize on intelligence.

Speaking in Venture Capitalists language, humans "sucked the oxygen from the room".

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#63

Post by hyperpallium »

clacke2 wrote: post #61
hyperpallium wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the "we just happened to be first" argument. Which could be true, but not very satisfying, because no detail.

We didn't have to be first. Other primates might have picked up the rock before we did, but eventually lost the race. Maybe the fire-cooking, rock-throwing domesticating niche is just that competitive. So it might be more like "we are the ones that remain", but yeah, either variant is a spin on the old weak anthropic principle, which is never quite satisfying.

And we do seem to have wiped out/outcompeted Neanderthals etc.

> fire-cooking, rock-throwing domesticating niche

Just knowing if that was the evolutionary pressure along the path would be enough for me (even if it could have been another ape or a corvid or whatever - or maybe they are on that path now?)

BTW Matt Ridley has the theory that division of labour (trade enabling specialization) was the gradient.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#64

Post by hyperpallium »

tasuki wrote: post #59
hyperpallium wrote: post #29

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

> why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Are other animals not intelligent? Are you sure we are intelligent? I guess that the difference between apes and humans would be minuscule to the outside observer.

You can argue for their intelligence, but they can't argue for yours.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#65

Post by AstralStorm »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #43
hyperpallium wrote: post #28

persistence hunt https://youtube.com/watch?v=826HMLoiE_o

Never been especially convinced by the endurance hunting theory, as dogs are far better at it than we are, with much greater endurance. So why no bipedal Fido?

Because the dog or cat would need vast incremental changes to body plan, while a tree ape does not need too much.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#66

Post by ufmace »

hyperpallium wrote: post #29

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

I've been inclined to think it has something to do with communication and community-forming tendencies. It seems that a number of other species, including Octopuses and African Grey Parrots, have pretty significant intelligence for animals. Yet their greater intelligence than most other animals doesn't seem to get them a really game-changing advantage over them. Human intelligence, or perhaps communication and organization in combination with them, has given us a series of game-changing advantages in a row, so many that our civilization is utterly dominant over any area where we choose to be.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#67

Post by NateEag »

andredz wrote: post #52
NateEag wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a Christian, but I don't think that passage means human biology is based on God's. God the Father is clearly not in a physical form throughout the Bible. I believe that's why "graven images" are forbidden in the Ten Commandments, as they'd mislead people into thinking of him as a physical being. God the Father as depicted in the Bible is closer to an omnipresent, omniscient mind that runs the universe as a simula…

I found two verses in which a throne and clouds are related to God: Psalm 97:2 - "Clouds and darkness surround Him; Righteousness and justice are the foundation of His throne." Job 26:9 - "He covers the face of His throne, And spreads His cloud over it." Of course, I'd think that "throne" is used to evoke the idea of sovereignty rather than a literal throne. There's also the whole of Revelation—I won't try to interpr…

Thanks for the references. As you say they seem clearly metaphorical, but I guess I can see how they could have contributed to the misconception, especially when American evangelicalism decided the whole book was literal.

I have read several of Chesterton's books, but I don't think I have ever gotten around to The Everlasting Man. Someday.

Re: No One Knows Why Humans Can Walk

#69

Post by perl4ever »

im3w1l wrote: post #35
hyperpallium wrote: post #29

What was the evolutionary pressure that made us intelligent - could it be ranged attack ? First, what I'm calling the Geo-Fermi Paradox - why are we the only intelligent animal on Earth? Sure, it has advantages - but other animals would gain those advantages too. So why didn't they become intelligent (or, at least, more intelligent) too? Sure, there was climate-change in Africa that rewarded adaptivity - but why didn…

If we consider other hominids, we don't know exactly, but it seems we outcompeted them. If we consider more distant animals, because we converted the entire planet to provide for us much faster than they could evolve to catch up with us.

However, the pressure has to have been exerted before humans outcompeted other hominids. This might seem too obvious, but you can't have an effect preceding its cause.
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