Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Harold Bloom Has Died

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 101 posts

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#61

Post by LeonB »

supernova87a wrote: post #57
coldtea wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, hitting on women (for men), hitting on men (for women), drinking, taking drugs, being tightwad, being lavish, being easily angered, and tons of other things, never stopped anybody from being a giant of letters or the arts, a great politician, a good scientist, a great athlete, a great actor, a great humanitarian, a great businessperson or any other thing... In fact it's probably more common in the great men and…

Is it possible that extreme greatness in certain talents comes with unavoidable flaws in others? Creativity, depression, wit, temper, outbursts, humor, affection. Would banishing some also eliminate the others? Lots of amazing writers, poets, scientists, are terribly flawed, depressed, tortured souls. Hell, even we here on HN debate every day the ridiculous company founders and VCs whose behavior creates interesting…

People in power are the only ones who have opportunities to abuse power. People who are given power and abuse that power should have that power taken away from them. There’s plenty of other people who will fill their role.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#62

Post by mturmon »

jerf wrote: post #7
jchallis wrote: post #2

I used to tutor math and physics near Bloom's office in Timothy Dwight. My main association with the man is that he would come on strong to every female English graduate student he could reach. When #MeToo first came to national consciousness about men in arts and letters who completely abused their position to take advantage of women, I thought of Harold. How could these giants of arts and letters abuse so many? Bec…

You shouldn't speak ill of the dead like this. It is uncouth and crass for all sorts of reasons. It doesn't mean you need to forget or ignore it, it just means... today is not the day. More days will come.

But then we would not have Hunter S. Thompson’s scathing take on Richard Nixon, published in Rolling Stone just after Nixon’s death:

“If the right people had been in charge of Nixon's funeral, his casket would have been launched into one of those open-sewage canals that empty into the ocean just south of Los Angeles. He was a swine of a man and a jabbering dupe of a president. Nixon was so crooked that he needed servants to help him screw his pants on every morning. Even his funeral was illegal. He was queer in the deepest way. His body should have been burned in a trash bin.”

I guess I’m arguing that the right words are a function of the context.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#63

Post by pattisapu »

henry_bone wrote: post #56

If I were to read one of his books as a guide the best bits of the canon to read, which book should I read? The main options appear to be 'Genius', 'The Western Canon' and 'How to read and why'. I'd like to read more, and a good guide to Western literature might be helpful.

I suggest: Where Shall Wisdom Be Found?

In my opinion here is Bloom at his boldest and finest.

He is looking for wisdom, not just in literature, but also in philosophy, religion....

While in some ways breezy, a bit of an airplane read, and sometimes provocative of little more than a chuckle, or a facepalm, it is, taken as a whole, a liberal and generous conception of the humanities and human life. That's Bloom for you.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#64

Post by smhost »

supernova87a wrote: post #57
coldtea wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, hitting on women (for men), hitting on men (for women), drinking, taking drugs, being tightwad, being lavish, being easily angered, and tons of other things, never stopped anybody from being a giant of letters or the arts, a great politician, a good scientist, a great athlete, a great actor, a great humanitarian, a great businessperson or any other thing... In fact it's probably more common in the great men and…

Is it possible that extreme greatness in certain talents comes with unavoidable flaws in others? Creativity, depression, wit, temper, outbursts, humor, affection. Would banishing some also eliminate the others? Lots of amazing writers, poets, scientists, are terribly flawed, depressed, tortured souls. Hell, even we here on HN debate every day the ridiculous company founders and VCs whose behavior creates interesting…

well, i don't know if either of you have been paying attention to anything that's been happening the past several decades, but there's an inherent problem with the codification of offensiveness. if everything's just a bunch of offensive meaningless shit (mormon amusement parks and dragon dildos or whatever), then you run into problems with the the moral relativism of offensiveness (or, in your case, sexual assault) itself becoming some kind of heroic righteous category.

so which is it? should sexual assault be condemned, or should it be celebrated, like you're doing here? to be clear, i care less about where you stand than i care that you pick a fucking stance.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#65

Post by briga »

There are few people who've read so widely and deeply as Harold Bloom. For all his idiosyncrasies as a critic and for whatever personal flaws he might have had, he inspired a generation of readers to read more and explore the classics of Western civilization. His books are valuable guides to the vast world of Western literature, and if they help preserve even a fraction of that heritage for the next generation of readers I think Bloom has achieved his purpose.

We've lost a great mind today. RIP

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#66

Post by henry_bone »

pattisapu wrote: post #63
henry_bone wrote: post #56

If I were to read one of his books as a guide the best bits of the canon to read, which book should I read? The main options appear to be 'Genius', 'The Western Canon' and 'How to read and why'. I'd like to read more, and a good guide to Western literature might be helpful.

I suggest: Where Shall Wisdom Be Found? In my opinion here is Bloom at his boldest and finest. He is looking for wisdom, not just in literature, but also in philosophy, religion.... While in some ways breezy, a bit of an airplane read, and sometimes provocative of little more than a chuckle, or a facepalm, it is, taken as a whole, a liberal and generous conception of the humanities and human life. That's Bloom for yo…

Thanks for that. I hadn't heard of Harold Bloom before today, but what I've read about his scholarship and writing today, leads me to think that I could use one or more of his books as a guide to reading books from the western canon.

I'll check out 'Where Shall Wisdom Be Found?'

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#67

Post by Gibbon1 »

teflodollar wrote: post #10

It's too bad to read these reports about his lecherousness, because he was without question a giant in the US world of letters.

It's a warning. I know a bunch of people that are obsessively sexually promiscuous/bent. They don't mix it up with their professional lives.

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#68

Post by keiferski »

One of the most erudite academics of the past century. It is truly a loss for those who have a respect and admiration for the great minds of the past.

If you’re a Bloom fan, or are interested in history and literature generally, I recommend looking into Lewis Lapham and his magazine, Lapham’s Quarterly. Lapham is also an exceptionally well-read, classically-trained writer and the magazine operates in the same areas as Bloom’s work.

https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#69

Post by supernova87a »

smhost wrote: post #64
supernova87a wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that extreme greatness in certain talents comes with unavoidable flaws in others? Creativity, depression, wit, temper, outbursts, humor, affection. Would banishing some also eliminate the others? Lots of amazing writers, poets, scientists, are terribly flawed, depressed, tortured souls. Hell, even we here on HN debate every day the ridiculous company founders and VCs whose behavior creates interesting…

well, i don't know if either of you have been paying attention to anything that's been happening the past several decades, but there's an inherent problem with the codification of offensiveness. if everything's just a bunch of offensive meaningless shit (mormon amusement parks and dragon dildos or whatever), then you run into problems with the the moral relativism of offensiveness (or, in your case, sexual assault) i…

I wasn't commenting about those allegations, I was replying to the parent comment about creative types who have extremes of personality.

I personally have no knowledge of those serious claims. I don't read in any reports here or elsewhere that Harold Bloom came close to perpetrating sexual assault. Do you, or do you have personal knowledge? If not maybe you should think about your own relativism as you try to turn every possible act by a person you don't know into a rallying cry to fuel your righteous indignation?

I was commenting that the people who have the most creativity often display severe personality flaws. I wasn't excusing anything. Seems like you're quite angry?

Re: Harold Bloom Has Died

#70

Post by keiferski »

whiddershins wrote: post #47
jchallis wrote: post #2

I used to tutor math and physics near Bloom's office in Timothy Dwight. My main association with the man is that he would come on strong to every female English graduate student he could reach. When #MeToo first came to national consciousness about men in arts and letters who completely abused their position to take advantage of women, I thought of Harold. How could these giants of arts and letters abuse so many? Bec…

You can do as you like, but for me it is a decent heuristic to not speak ill of the dead. I, personally, really don’t enjoy reading about people using someone’s death or funeral as a platform for maligning their life, regardless of the accuracy and poignancy of the claims. Would you bring up this discussion in front of a grieving family member? Do you think it impossible someone already in pain might read what is sai…

Writing a short call-out comment on an anonymous internet forum is easy. Thinking deeply about the appropriate time and place to bring up and challenge a person’s perceived unethical past deeds is difficult.
Post reply on HN