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In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

latimes.com

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Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#61

Post by hestipod »

snagglegaggle wrote: post #56
scarmig wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of fear of malpractice suits and general well intention of doctors and nurses, medical providers make a lot more money from the provision of services than from being corpse brokers.

Have you ever researched the outcome of malpractice suits? People almost never win nowadays, usually because doctors must testify against other doctors. It is impossible to hold them accountable and now there are usually caps on damages.

It's so frustrating to see people deny truths because they don't like them. I know what you say to be true. I have experienced it and have seen many other victims of medical malpractice experience it. Money always wins and doctors and their insurance companies lobby for laws and establish facilities in areas with a more friendly jury pool (higher financial classes and peers). But I constantly hear how "people are just out for a payday" and how "easy" it is to sue and win from people who have no idea. Medical mistakes are the THIRD leading cause of death. They ruined my life. But every time the topic comes up and people speak about it like you did they are downvoted, ignored, dismissed. The same as the victims. People are just terrible so much of the time. No empathy or ethical/moral center.

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#62

Post by hestipod »

scarejunba wrote: post #59

Thanks. I've opted out of organ donation and I'm informing everyone I know to do the same.

I will not likely be around much longer and there seems to be no way to ensure my remains are used for good or just flushed and not lining someone's pocket. You cannot even just be disposed of...you have to pay four figures at least just for a simple cremation where someone profits from just burning you up. I cannot even escape capitalism's nonsense in death. I had my end of life documents made up not long ago and had noted scientific donation as my preference, but after this article and looking into it more, I don't want some greedy jerkwad selling my bits. My life was ruined by greed and people choosing profits over life...and I hate the idea of those same sort of people "winning" in my death.

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#63

Post by RandomInteger4 »

krapht wrote: post #6
big_chungus wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, way to make people want to be organ donors. I'm willing to help someone who's got a bad kidney, but that? No way. There's a big difference in giving up some body parts to save someone's life once you don't need them and getting sent to the glue factory to feed someone's vanity.

I mean, for a lot people, I imagine there isn't a difference. I'm going to remain an organ donor. It is said that Diogenes, when asked how he wished to be buried, left instructions to be thrown outside the city wall so wild animals could feast on his body. When asked if he minded this, he said, "Not at all, as long as you provide me with a stick to chase the creatures away!" When asked how he could use the stick sinc…

The silent component of the disgust behind what's happening in articles like this is the fear that medical professionals will see greater profit from letting you die than from saving your life.

I bet there are already cases like this, either in the US, or in the dystopia that is China.

Fuck, I mean, there's already people out there who drug people and harvest their kidneys in a bathtub of some dirty motel somewhere. If there are people doing this shit on the black market, then there's definitely sociopaths that would do this shit in the hospitals if they thought they could get away with it, which is just what the organ donor checkbox opens the door to.

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#64

Post by nicoburns »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #41
nicoburns wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in the UK healthcare is seen as a right. Hospitals and recipients of organs don't pay for them, and nobody is making money off of donated bodies. The idea that access to life-saving treatment is based on ability to pay, and that there are corporations making profit at the expense of people's health and well-being is pretty terrifying to me. There's nothing rational about such a system.

Ability to pay dictates all aspects of life. Whether the individual pays or their country, at the end, no one works for free. That is why poor people in poorer countries than the U.K. don’t have access to life saving treatments. I’m sure even poor people in the U.K. don’t have access to the same care that rich people do.

> Ability to pay dictates all aspects of life.

Only under capitalism. That's precisely why this is terrifyingly capitalistic. Societies ability to produce dictates all aspects of life. But not necessarily ability to pay.

> I’m sure even poor people in the U.K. don’t have access to the same care that rich people do

Not if you're really rich (a millionaire). But even rich people in the UK will usually go for the NHS first. The care's pretty good.

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#65

Post by linuxftw »

RandomInteger4 wrote: post #63
krapht wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, for a lot people, I imagine there isn't a difference. I'm going to remain an organ donor. It is said that Diogenes, when asked how he wished to be buried, left instructions to be thrown outside the city wall so wild animals could feast on his body. When asked if he minded this, he said, "Not at all, as long as you provide me with a stick to chase the creatures away!" When asked how he could use the stick sinc…

The silent component of the disgust behind what's happening in articles like this is the fear that medical professionals will see greater profit from letting you die than from saving your life. I bet there are already cases like this, either in the US, or in the dystopia that is China. Fuck, I mean, there's already people out there who drug people and harvest their kidneys in a bathtub of some dirty motel somewhere.…

Yes, the incentives are very perverse. What an average person considers 'dead' and what the organ harvesters consider dead are two completely different things [1].

Organ-carving doctors are desensitized to death. They don't care if you live or die, but they do care if they get to harvest your organs because those are worth a ton of money. I'm sure there's 100's if not 1000's of people getting carved up every year that could have been saved, but the incentives are to let the person die to harvest their organs.

1: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/patient-wakes-doctors-remove-o...

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#66

Post by hanniabu »

el_cujo wrote: post #18
hanniabu wrote: post #15

How come you can only be an organ donor or nothing at all? Why is it not possible for your family to sell your body? I'm positive that it would flood the market with bodies and drive the value of your body down, but would at least still cover funeral services. It would be nice if you could even select what you want to donate and sell, such as sell your skin and donate your organs.

I'm not saying I like this current system either, I but I could definitely see some downsides to letting people legally sell bodies for profit. It certainly seems chilling to me that people could have serious conversation about "what to do with grandma" if you have to consider not only how much it costs to take care of her, but also how much you could stand to be paid for her. It opens up a lot of unpleasant doors, b…

> conversation about "what to do with grandma"

I'd think it'd be similar to the current situation where the (eventually dead) person has to opt-in. It can also be put in the will so that family members aren't aware of it and kill you for profit.

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#67

Post by CrackerNews »

eth0up wrote: post #39
cheez wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I hope you never learn of Chinese organ harvesting farms.

I'm well aware of the issue and it isn't only China. The black market for parts is ubiquitous and illicit organ brokers are everywhere, etc, etc. Need a kidney? Someone knows a homeless guy pining for cash..[1] We may not be as different from China as we prefer to think. Rather than state sanctioned, ours will be corporately so. Social credit system is coming here soon too. 1. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cash-connec…

[dead]

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#68

Post by xwdv »

nicoburns wrote: post #64
lotsofpulp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ability to pay dictates all aspects of life. Whether the individual pays or their country, at the end, no one works for free. That is why poor people in poorer countries than the U.K. don’t have access to life saving treatments. I’m sure even poor people in the U.K. don’t have access to the same care that rich people do.

> Ability to pay dictates all aspects of life. Only under capitalism. That's precisely why this is terrifyingly capitalistic. Societies ability to produce dictates all aspects of life. But not necessarily ability to pay. > I’m sure even poor people in the U.K. don’t have access to the same care that rich people do Not if you're really rich (a millionaire). But even rich people in the UK will usually go for the NHS fi…

All aspects of life are ultimately dictated by something. If not by the ability to pay, then it will be by other things out of your control or your ability to curry favor with those who can get you what you want.

I’d prefer it just be dictated by pay and skip the bullshit.

Re: In the rush to harvest body parts, death investigations have been upended

#69

Post by manigandham »

nicoburns wrote: post #64
lotsofpulp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ability to pay dictates all aspects of life. Whether the individual pays or their country, at the end, no one works for free. That is why poor people in poorer countries than the U.K. don’t have access to life saving treatments. I’m sure even poor people in the U.K. don’t have access to the same care that rich people do.

> Ability to pay dictates all aspects of life. Only under capitalism. That's precisely why this is terrifyingly capitalistic. Societies ability to produce dictates all aspects of life. But not necessarily ability to pay. > I’m sure even poor people in the U.K. don’t have access to the same care that rich people do Not if you're really rich (a millionaire). But even rich people in the UK will usually go for the NHS fi…

That's not what capitalism is. It's an economic system and has absolutely nothing to do with governance, policies, and the greater good.
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