The China Cultural Clash • Hacker News Board

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#61

Post by mlyle » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

knzhou wrote: post #37

The Chinese get pissed off at political statements Americans find innocuous. Europeans are angry over the dominance of American tech companies which they are unable to control. Americans are panicked at the very idea of anybody non-Western being associated with any technology they use, as we saw with FaceApp and 5G. This was all inevitable, and it's going to lead to siloed-off, separate internets for every region in…

I don't think people want a Great Firewall. I just don't want economic power being concentrated by foreign states to suppress political speech here.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#62

Post by JumpCrisscross » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #44

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've all accepted the incredibly one-sided deal, in some kind of idealistic hope that the Chinese would latch on to "western" values of democracy etc just by trading with us To expand on this, the history of economic and democratic development were thought to go hand in hand. Not only had it borne out in Western Europe, it also showed traction in post-war Japan and India. So the hypothesis, that a wealthier China…

> So the hypothesis, that a wealthier China would be a more stable, more democratic China wasn't insane. I think the jury is still out. China has a long way left to develop and a huge populace still toiling without the benefits of that wealth. And some of the ways the economic development has happened are IMO temporarily and not durable. > There was legitimate hope it would think and plan for the long term. With a di…

> I'm not sure that's a huge fraction of the billion peoples' productive power

The Winnie the Pooh thing is amusing because we like watching powerful people be insecure about childish things.

The dirtier side is senior CCP members using the country's wealth for personal gain to a level not seen since the Soviet Union [1].

[1] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/936509...

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#63

Post by jimclegg » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

ashelmire wrote: post #33

jimclegg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the world vs China, it has always been the West vs China, European leaders' "zero sum" mentality has made it an economic target for the better part of 2+ centuries. Please don't include the majority of the world that is benefiting from a new benevolent economic actor on the block.

You're considering China to be a new benevolent economic actor? Can you explain what behavior you consider "benevolent"?

The "well planned" foreign infrastructure projects have had positive impacts on the local communities and economies.

They provide access to loans from an alternative world bank at competitive rates with less strings attached.

Adding depth/liquidity to global markets is beneficial to participants.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#64

Post by monkbent » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:34 PM UTC

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #16

the_details_guy wrote: post #9

It appears that the third screenshot doesn't use the characters 火箭, but some other word?

火影，or naruto, so not surprising he's not seeing the rockets. Not sure if BT will edit the article or not

Screw up by me but point holds. Fixing.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#65

Post by bonestamp2 » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #50

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that Cook became CEO because of his logistics and operations work in China, so there is a lot of legacy to go on. Apple assembles iPhones in Brazil and I believe India now, but these are mostly for high tariff reasons. Much of what goes into an iPhone isn’t made in china (and what is made in China can easily be made elsewhere), but they are mostly made in east Asia, so having assembly done somewhere in the regio…

But they don't own any factories, right? Wouldn't it destroy Foxconn and only defer revenue a bit for Apple? Maybe a few people who just gotta have the newest, latest, and greatest gadget will switch to a Flagship android because they can't wait for the new iPhone. But most people are pretty loyal / trapped into their mobile ecosystem. I doubt it would materially affect Apple's market share or their revenue long-term…

> Wouldn't it destroy Foxconn and only defer revenue a bit for Apple?

They might not even have to do that... from what I understand, they are working with Foxconn to move some production out of China. Both companies can benefit from spreading some of the political risk around.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#66

Post by mlyle » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

Merrill wrote: post #58

knzhou wrote: post #37

The Chinese get pissed off at political statements Americans find innocuous. Europeans are angry over the dominance of American tech companies which they are unable to control. Americans are panicked at the very idea of anybody non-Western being associated with any technology they use, as we saw with FaceApp and 5G. This was all inevitable, and it's going to lead to siloed-off, separate internets for every region in…

Every large organization has firewalled its internet protocol networks for decades. It's incomprehensible why some thought nations wouldn't do so as well.

> Every large organization has firewalled

The primary purpose of this is to enforce security for connections. Not every large organization employs content filtering, and those that do mostly only enforce a minimal standard of what is acceptable for work.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#67

Post by samcheng » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

> And then there is Apple: the company is deeply exposed to China both in terms of sales and especially when it comes to manufacturing. The reality is that, particularly when it comes to the latter, Apple doesn’t have anywhere else to go.

For what it's worth, I know of multiple Chinese companies that are themselves moving manufacturing overseas, primarily to South East Asia. I'm not convinced that the multinationals have nowhere else to go.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#68

Post by samename » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

zarro wrote: post #41

I see lots of Anti-China sentiment. I would be very careful here into not falling into their deliberate trap of making "The West" China's "Enemy". China in its current totalitarian form needs an "Enemy" to survive, without it, it has to deal with difficult internal questions which will force it to adapt and change - and this what scares them. Totalitarian governments rely on distraction and misdirection of the popula…

This is really good insight. But wouldn’t China craft their own ”enemy” by deliberating breaking trade deals and such?

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#69

Post by reilly3000 » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

I think Western memory about the Opium Wars is a lot weaker than China's. They have a moral defense against any accusation of economic imperialism. Indeed, communism would have never taken hold if the British hadn't done such devastating harm.

Re: The China Cultural Clash

#70

Post by guelo » Tue, Oct 08, 2019, 5:36 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #17

Attempts by China to leverage market access into self-censorship by U.S. companies should also be treated as trade violations that are subject to retaliation. Thank you, Ben, for this honest appraisal which involves sticking out your neck and perhaps even harming your ability to travel to China or expand your business. Regarding this comment about Apple: And then there is Apple: the company is deeply exposed to China…

As far as I know China has done little to threaten it's status as the world's manufacturer, anyone can build there. It is access to their internal markets that they've used as leverage. For example Google is not allowed to sell their products to their internal markets but they are allowed to manufacture their devices there without problems.