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Eek, A Male

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Re: Eek, A Male

#61

Post by axod »

maxawaytoolong wrote: post #21
axod wrote: post #8

If I had to choose one of the following, to improve society: a). More women in tech b). More men in childcare/teaching It'd be 'b' without a doubt. As said elsewhere, the complete lack of any male role models at a large number of schools is astonishing and very worrying. Is it any wonder girls are performing better than boys these days, as the number of male teachers has decreased to almost none? Great to finally see…

Does it really make any difference? I grew up in an anachronistic small town and had at least 50% male teachers from 1st grade on up. I can't say I paid attention to any of my teachers, male or female. If anything, I thought the male teachers were much bigger idiots and losers than the female teachers. In no way did I view them as "role models."

I think a lot of it is subconsciously consumed. Also if you were lucky to have a good male role model at home - father/older siblings, then perhaps male teachers weren't important to you.

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that boys learn best when taught by men, and girls learn best when taught by women. Male and female brains are very different, and we think differently about problems.

So if your school has 80% women teachers, then the girls are going to do better on average than the boys in that school, which is concerning.

Re: Eek, A Male

#62

Post by falcolas »

kenjackson wrote: post #40
rgraham wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? What evidence shows that there are enough bad ones? Cherry picked news stories by for-profit media? What if all the good ones packed up and left when they were treated like predators-to-be?

One of the better papers to read is http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/female.htm It is specifically about lifting the lid on abuse perpetuated by females, and not a "cherry picked" story. Here's a site that is more numbers focused: http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html Here are some numbers: Nearly all the offenders in sexual assaults reported to law enforcement were male (96%). - Sexual Assault…

All of your statistics are pointing at society in general, which does not support your statement regarding the subset of male teachers versus female teachers (particularly if you take into account the gender ratios of teachers).

These statistics are also in relation to the total number of molesters in the US population, which if my memory serves me (at work, no desire to look up the specifics on my work connection) is less than .01% of the US population.

That's a pretty small chance of a random male of being an offender, much less so a male teacher.

Re: Eek, A Male

#63

Post by aaronroyer »

zdw wrote: post #4
PaulHoule wrote: post #3

My child went to an excellent day care center that got targeted for harassment because it had male workers. The place got inspected by the state and ultimately got a clean bill of health, but it cost them money and caused a lot of worry for them and parents who had children there. I spoke with the director and we both agreed that children spend too much time with women in school and day care. One of the reasons many…

Additionally, it's considered OK to slam men in media, where it isn't right to do it to women. The next time you see a commercial that makes use of gender roles, swap the genders and see if the commercial would still be suitable. Most don't hold up to this scrutiny.

I agree that the phenomenon is undeniable. Commercial after commercial shows a bumbling, silly, or wrongheaded male creating a problem that an eye-rolling female armed with the advertised product is able to solve.

I used to find this mildly annoying. I thought that surely our society is sufficiently advanced that we might accept roughly equal occurrences of each gender as the goats in these commercials without it seeming disparaging to women.

But thinking this made me realize: having men as the goats is not disparaging to men, either. Now I choose to attribute the phenomenon to the conventional wisdom that men are generally less self-conscious than women. I believe there is some anecdotal evidence for this but have no idea whether it is actually true. What I do believe is that marketers perceive this to be the case and making commercials that make men look stupid will alienate fewer people in the audience, since humiliating somebody that a male viewer identifies with is, theoretically, less disquieting.

The same applies to sitcoms and movies.

Re: Eek, A Male

#64

Post by oiuhjyftgrdgh »

kenjackson wrote: post #23
axod wrote: post #8

If I had to choose one of the following, to improve society: a). More women in tech b). More men in childcare/teaching It'd be 'b' without a doubt. As said elsewhere, the complete lack of any male role models at a large number of schools is astonishing and very worrying. Is it any wonder girls are performing better than boys these days, as the number of male teachers has decreased to almost none? Great to finally see…

I have to admit I'd go the complete opposite. I do know there are great male teachers, but in environments where the male teacher might be alone with children I am hesitant. The data bears this out, as does personal experience. With that said male coaches or piano teachers or tutors I have no problem with, since those generally take place in plainsight of parents. I know that really sucks for the good ones, and most…

Most abuse is by family members/friends.

So rather than trusting your husband to drop your kids off in the SUV and worrying about the gym teacher - you would be safer letting them walk with strangers.

Re: Eek, A Male

#65

Post by alex_c »

kenjackson wrote: post #51
alex_c wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two immediate thoughts: 1) Any similar argument about women and another profession would instantly be met with cries of sexism. 2) This is a great example of the types of unsubstantiated mass hysteria that seem to be more and more common. I find it really depressing, not least of which because I can't think of a solution.

There are few other professions that result in a baby being sexually abused. I'm more than willing to bend over backwards to give someone a chance writing code, fixing plumbing, making clothing, painting a room. Some things I'm less willing to do. With that said, its a great opportunity for people who don't mind male daycare teachers to really get top quality care for less money. I think you'd be foolish not to explo…

This is what I mean by hysteria. Actual odds of a child being molested by a male teacher/caregiver? Female teacher/caregiver? Family member or family friend of either gender?

Regardless of numbers or justification, you're also accepting a form of discrimination that would be much less acceptable for any other situation. Hell, even "I would never get a gay babysitter" would likely provoke more outrage.

The worst part is that I completely understand your argument. When it comes to our children, all bets are off - forget statistics and numbers, if your kid gets hurt and you feel you could have prevented it, no matter how unlikely the event, you'll never forgive yourself for it. That's normal, it's natural - it's also likely to lead to completely irrational behavior, which can easily grow into hysteria. That's what bothers me the most - that in a way it's normal.

Re: Eek, A Male

#66

Post by kenjackson »

vacri wrote: post #53
kenjackson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the better papers to read is http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/female.htm It is specifically about lifting the lid on abuse perpetuated by females, and not a "cherry picked" story. Here's a site that is more numbers focused: http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html Here are some numbers: Nearly all the offenders in sexual assaults reported to law enforcement were male (96%). - Sexual Assault…

Where are the stats about male /teachers/ alone with pupils having a worrying level of sexual predation, which is what you claimed.

Here's one about daycare workers: http://bjsw.oxfordjournals.org/content/33/4/481.full.pdf

Here's a quote based on their data, "In summary this study found that a sexual interest in children is relatively common among male public sector child care workers".

Here's another study about educators: http://www.taasa.org/library/pdfs/TAASALibrary142.pdf

Choice quote, "The vast majority (96%) of the abusers in our study were males".

But lets be clear, I'm not saying to ban male daycare teachers at all. I'm just saying I won't send my children to one. And I think the numbers make this very clear as to why one might make this decision. Now clearly you don't think those numbers prove anything and that's fine. Like I said in another post, it's a great arbitrage opportunity for you.

Re: Eek, A Male

#67

Post by Dove »

kenjackson wrote: post #40
rgraham wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citation? What evidence shows that there are enough bad ones? Cherry picked news stories by for-profit media? What if all the good ones packed up and left when they were treated like predators-to-be?

One of the better papers to read is http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/female.htm It is specifically about lifting the lid on abuse perpetuated by females, and not a "cherry picked" story. Here's a site that is more numbers focused: http://www.yellodyno.com/html/child_molester_stats.html Here are some numbers: Nearly all the offenders in sexual assaults reported to law enforcement were male (96%). - Sexual Assault…

I didn't follow your links, but I do want to point out that the statistics you mention strike me as the wrong ones. You're discussing how many pedophiles are men, but I want to know how many men are pedophiles.

It's like saying that one should always walk on the sidewalk because land mines are always planted in soil. Whether or not that's good advise depends very much on how much I expect to encounter land mines on my travels.

Re: Eek, A Male

#68

Post by axod »

klbarry wrote: post #32
alexophile wrote: post #24

[I originally posted this on a reddit discussion, link's at the bottom] One day, my friend Bryan was charged with the daunting task of getting Ellie, one of the older and more difficult students, to read out of a children's book for a distinct and measurable amount of time. After some cajoling, pleading, and maybe even trickery, the two were finally sitting down at a table with myself and another student. To keep Ell…

I think some children at least understand fully the power it gives them, and for some troubled children it is a tool to lash out.

It's surely more pointing out the absurdity of adults being so petrified of terrorists/pedophiles/etc Basically everything the media tries to make us scared of.

Re: Eek, A Male

#69

Post by haploid »

sarkozy wrote: post #29
axod wrote: post #8

If I had to choose one of the following, to improve society: a). More women in tech b). More men in childcare/teaching It'd be 'b' without a doubt. As said elsewhere, the complete lack of any male role models at a large number of schools is astonishing and very worrying. Is it any wonder girls are performing better than boys these days, as the number of male teachers has decreased to almost none? Great to finally see…

More men are not needed in childcare/teaching because women are naturally - from birth - better at the type of empathy and communication that is required in those fields. It's the same reason that women excel in technology management roles (while generally being inferior in technical roles because of inadequate training or aptitude, exceptional cases like Marissa Mayer excepted). Even a woman with average communicati…

Downvote the heretic!

Unpopular opinions will not be tolerated!

Oh, HN, you never fail to disappoint.

Re: Eek, A Male

#70

Post by [deleted] »

Splines wrote: post #11

Sadly, it's difficult to compare the hand-wavy benefit (letting children interact with men) with the real cost of having something happen to your child. As a parent, I'm of the opinion that the media blows kidnappings and the like way out of proportion. Even then, it's difficult to look at the data objectively, because it's your children.

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