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It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

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Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#61

Post by danielschlaug »

gmueckl wrote: post #49
godzillabrennus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lug around about 6/7 bags of video equipment around from time to time for interviews I do. I could never manage it on the subway. It would otherwise be awesome to have less cars on the roads.

Pedestrian zones in German cities habe exceptions for transportation to or from locations inside them. Otherwise, stores in these areas couldn't get their wares etc. This just prevents regular car traffic and creates a safe space for walking. I don't know if the concept can scale tonan area the size of Manhattan. Just the necessary level of traffic would probably add up to to a lot of vehicles entering and leaving. I…

The assumption that cars are the only publicly available cargo carriers would also be ridiculous if cars weren’t so abundant that all other solutions are floored. There’s everything from cargo bicycles to autonomous delivery vehicles that could fill this role.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#62

Post by speedplane »

Pfhreak wrote: post #7
HenryKissinger wrote: post #2

Unfortunately, New York City was built at a time when people rode horses, and its streets reflect that. And you can't just widen a street, certainly not in a city like NYC. You would have to destroy every building on one side of a street, and build new buildings, all for a gain of a few feet. Large megapolises like NYC need to start exploring the concept of 3D streets. Instead of having a single street level, on the…

When has building more roads for cars ever resulted in fixing traffic. The solution isn't to try and make the city more car friendly, it's to remove the cars entirely. Move to streetcars, subways, trains, busses, anything that moves crowds of people rather than 1-5 people. Cars are such an incredibly inefficient model for moving people around in dense areas -- every person gets their own engine, several chairs, stora…

> why would I need to own a car if public transit served my every need and I could take a zipcar/car2go/taxi for those rare, rare cases when I needed my own vehicle?

Many kids growing up in NYC rarely get to leave the city. They don't get to go upstate, see real nature and open spaces, go camping, hike a big mountain, swim in a natural lake, or experience the things that a large city cannot offer. Many never get a drivers license, rendering them immobile outside a major city, locking them in place.

For families in NYC that do not own a car, the only way to access these experiences is by renting a vehicle. Yet, New York charges a 20% tax on rental cars, and another 20% tax on paid parking spots, driving up the cost of renting a car to over $120/day, out of reach for many families that want to escape the city for a day or experience nature.

If NYC really cared about reducing inequality, and providing families access to experiences that everyone should be able to enjoy, they would eliminate these taxes and make car rentals/shares easier and far less expensive.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#63

Post by _delirium »

speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

The thing that kicked off this week's controversy about NYC in particular is a geniune attempt to improve transit by focusing on how to move the most people as fast as possible. What is angering drivers is that the city turned much of 14th St into bus-only lanes, and removed some street parking in the process as well.

And, it seems to have worked, at least from early indications! Buses now move much faster! If that holds up, it would ideally allow for even more improvements, like running more buses, speeding up official bus schedules to account for the lowered congestion, which hopefully will in turn result in more ridership, etc. https://www.wsj.com/articles/buses-cruise-through-manhattan-...

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#64

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Cars work because they solve for the first and last mile (50yards) problem. Public transport is great - but it is coarser than private cars. Even timetabled buses cannot drive down every road

The "right" solution is presumably "sharing" car stack (no not Uber style sharing).

But boy I am not sure the politics or even economics stack up.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#65

Post by mattmanser »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #64

Cars work because they solve for the first and last mile (50yards) problem. Public transport is great - but it is coarser than private cars. Even timetabled buses cannot drive down every road The "right" solution is presumably "sharing" car stack (no not Uber style sharing). But boy I am not sure the politics or even economics stack up.

Your legs also solve the first and last mile problem.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#66

Post by speedplane »

_delirium wrote: post #63
speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

The thing that kicked off this week's controversy about NYC in particular is a geniune attempt to improve transit by focusing on how to move the most people as fast as possible. What is angering drivers is that the city turned much of 14th St into bus-only lanes, and removed some street parking in the process as well. And, it seems to have worked, at least from early indications! Buses now move much faster! If that h…

> And, it seems to have worked, at least from early indications! Buses now move much faster!

The speed of buses is not the appropriate metric by which we should be evaluating policy. Speedy empty buses are not exactly a win. Instead, we should be asking how much time and money does it take to get from point A to B.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#67

Post by epanchin »

maelito wrote: post #50
speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

> If they want to ban cars due to effects on the environment, they should say that maybe promote electric vehicles. Electric vehicules are usually better than thermal ones, but they're still a big carbon emitter. Except if they're shared. No individual vehicule heavier than 50kg can be considered good in terms of climate impact.

Where the carbon is emitted is important for city residents. Electric cars are better for the local environment.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#68

Post by _delirium »

speedplane wrote: post #66
_delirium wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that kicked off this week's controversy about NYC in particular is a geniune attempt to improve transit by focusing on how to move the most people as fast as possible. What is angering drivers is that the city turned much of 14th St into bus-only lanes, and removed some street parking in the process as well. And, it seems to have worked, at least from early indications! Buses now move much faster! If that h…

> And, it seems to have worked, at least from early indications! Buses now move much faster! The speed of buses is not the appropriate metric by which we should be evaluating policy. Speedy empty buses are not exactly a win. Instead, we should be asking how much time and money does it take to get from point A to B.

I agree, though weighted by actual people moved, not per-vehicle.

A guess: I'd be very surprised if speeding up the buses doesn't end up a net win here, given the density. In fact I believe that was evaluated in the proposal to make this change, but I haven't read it. I have been reading some preliminary proposals for new bus lanes in Washington, DC, and on the 16th St corridor there (which is less dense than Manhattan by a large margin), buses already, without dedicated bus lanes, account for 50% of passenger throughput during rushhour, despite being only about 3% of vehicles. At those kinds of ratios, it becomes fairly easy to come up with bus-prioritization schemes that end up as a net-win for commuting hours saved, even if you completely discount environmental impacts.

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#69

Post by gambiting »

maelito wrote: post #50
speedplane wrote: post #48

Banning cars, congestion pricing, Uber and taxi surchages, taxing parking spots and rental cars ... under the current NYC political consensus, personal motor vehicles are in the cross-hairs. I actually would support this if it was part of an honest effort to improve transportation and livability in the city, but most of these proposals make it harder to live here, not easier. I suspect the real motivation is a mix of…

> If they want to ban cars due to effects on the environment, they should say that maybe promote electric vehicles. Electric vehicules are usually better than thermal ones, but they're still a big carbon emitter. Except if they're shared. No individual vehicule heavier than 50kg can be considered good in terms of climate impact.

>>Electric vehicules are usually better than thermal ones, but they're still a big carbon emitter

My argument here is always that even if all electricity was produced from coal power plants(it isn't) surely it's much better to have one big carbon emitter far outside of the city, than thousands of smaller carbon emitters in the middle of the city. Yes, it is just externalising the emissions, but I think it's important to improve the air quality where people actually live, no?

Re: It's time to ban cars from Manhattan?

#70

Post by gambiting »

afarrell wrote: post #56
acd wrote: post #52

I think cars should be banned from most densely populated city centers in general. There is a word describing it "Pedestrianization" Reasoning: Cars pollute the air which makes the people living and walking in the city centers sick. Cars pollute with noise. Cars cause pedestrian and bicycle accidents. Its nice for peoples health to be able to walk and run in open areas. Streets which previously was used by cars can b…

What does someone do if they twist their ankle badly and are on crutches for a month?

I see you're getting downvoted but I don't understand why - pretty much exactly this happened to me recently, I had severely reduced mobility in my leg for about 2 months, but I was told that I don't qualify for a blue badge. So while I luckily could drive(left leg affected, automatic car), this was one time in my life where I could actually benefit from being able to 1) get closer to where I need to be 2) park close to the entrance, but because it wasn't a permanent or long term disability I couldn't get the right permit.
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