Live data from Hacker News

Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

blog.chef.io

61–70 of 126 posts

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#61

Regarding the deleted Ruby gems: I think it's unprofessional for developers to try and bring down production services just because they disagree with a company move. It's also a bit immature. The thing to do in this case is to quit. Down your tools and quit, but don't destroy the hard work of your teammates and betray the trust of all your investors and customers.

Ideologues often don't that care much about being professional or reasonable.

Sometimes you reach a point where being reasonable and professional becomes counterproductive.

Sometimes you reach a point where the doublethink necessary to seem reasonable and professional leaves you despising yourself.

Sometimes it isn't enough to ask, "What would John Galt do?"

In times like these, sometimes the only reasonable question is, "What would Howard Roark do?"

His answer, when his work was misused in a manner he could no longer bear to tolerate, was to break out the dynamite.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#62

I took the liberty of invoking Godwin's Law and re-purposed this template, it should make you consider how weak this statement really is. """ While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with the Third Reich, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the IBM executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of…

I believe you’ve hit the nail on the head with this.

This is the most accurate and succinct way to show how this looks.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#63

Regarding the deleted Ruby gems: I think it's unprofessional for developers to try and bring down production services just because they disagree with a company move. It's also a bit immature. The thing to do in this case is to quit. Down your tools and quit, but don't destroy the hard work of your teammates and betray the trust of all your investors and customers.

I think it's our moral imperative to prevent our work from being used for acts that betray our values. Take a second and remember that the gas chambers used by Hitler to inflict a genocide were designed by engineers. I think we all agree that those engineers should have sabotaged their own work to prevent harm coming to the victims of the Holocaust, and it's very surprising to me that you're defending profits and investors over moral values.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#64
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet that's the same sort of sophistry that allowed IBM's management to justify doing business with the Nazi regime. I know what Crist is saying. And it smells like self-serving bullshit to me. He doesn't want to do the right thing as a human being and as an American citizen because it would cut into Chef's revenues and upset the company's shareholders and investors. As far as I am concerned, this is unforgivable mo…

Pretty much every tech company, hundreds of consulting firms, dozens of construction firms, etc, etc do business with DoHS and ICE. These are huge organizations with thousands of employees that buy products and services from thousands of suppliers. Everything from software to sock. Are you gonna get angry with all of those companies too? And what about the DEA, FBI, NSA, CIA and DoD? They all do things that some Amer…

> It just seems mean and petty to pick on Chef to me.

I'm picking on Chef because somebody ought to, and it might as well be me.

There isn't a word I could say that would actually harm Chef, so they do not need your concern.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#65

I took the liberty of invoking Godwin's Law and re-purposed this template, it should make you consider how weak this statement really is. """ While I understand that many of you and many of our community members would prefer we had no business relationship with the Third Reich, I have made a principled decision, with the support of the IBM executive team, to work with the institutions of our government, regardless of…

> the Third Reich

Not to get hyperbolic, but... you don't actually think that the U.S. government is equivalent to the Third Reich, do you?

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#66
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet that's the same sort of sophistry that allowed IBM's management to justify doing business with the Nazi regime. I know what Crist is saying. And it smells like self-serving bullshit to me. He doesn't want to do the right thing as a human being and as an American citizen because it would cut into Chef's revenues and upset the company's shareholders and investors. As far as I am concerned, this is unforgivable mo…

Pretty much every tech company, hundreds of consulting firms, dozens of construction firms, etc, etc do business with DoHS and ICE. These are huge organizations with thousands of employees that buy products and services from thousands of suppliers. Everything from software to sock. Are you gonna get angry with all of those companies too? And what about the DEA, FBI, NSA, CIA and DoD? They all do things that some Amer…

You're conflating defending the actions of an employee with judging organizations for doing business with morally questionable entities.

Do I think everyone should deny ICE contracts? No. Do I believe an employee should have the right to prevent their work being used for acts that they object to? Yes.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#67
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to look at the moral behavior of every person they work with, they just need to listen to their employees. The likelihood of employees being able to actually abuse that privilege is pretty low since it requires a lot of collaboration. Also this is not about "doing anything" in the sense of stopping ICE. This is about an individuals right to choose who they want to support and work with. Would you real…

That's fair, but we are diving into subjective territory. Lets say (hypothetically) that half of the employees support ICE. Who decides then whether or not the contract is maintained? (Unlikely scenario in this case, but I am more interested in the general precedent than this specific scenario, so just playing devil's advocate) Also, lets say you are the CEO who proposes that you should NOT work with ICE, but all of…

Yeah those are good points. I'm not really sure how that could be handled well. It has to be handled on a case by case basis. In this situation specifically though the CEO says that he doesn't support their actions either so seems like a simpler case of "Hey my employees brought this to my attention and I agree with them"

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#68

Regarding the deleted Ruby gems: I think it's unprofessional for developers to try and bring down production services just because they disagree with a company move. It's also a bit immature. The thing to do in this case is to quit. Down your tools and quit, but don't destroy the hard work of your teammates and betray the trust of all your investors and customers.

It sounds you're saying that the developer who deleted their gems in protest shouldn't actually own their work, because exercising their rights as owners might inconvenience others.

Unfortunately, when you work for a company, you've, in most cases, chosen to trade your rights to your work over to the company. The company owns the intellectual property

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds you're saying that the developer who deleted their gems in protest shouldn't actually own their work, because exercising their rights as owners might inconvenience others.

Unfortunately, when you work for a company, you've, in most cases, chosen to trade your rights to your work over to the company. The company owns the intellectual property

I am aware of how work-for-hire works. I've been in this trade for twenty years. It is why I only pretend to be passionate about "my" work. I know it is not truly mine, and embrace alienation from my labor as a coping mechanism.

Re: Chef CEO Defends Contract with ICE

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What ability does Chef have to change family separation and detainment? These things would still be happening if ICE had to go back to whatever they were using before Chef.

but they might be harder. Which is the point. Private people can resist abhorrent policies by putting up roadblocks or at least not making it easier

If anything, this sort of thing makes it worse for the immigrants awaiting asylum hearings: if it's harder to keep track of who's there, it's harder to process them. There was a company whose employees walked out when they found out they were making beds for ICE detainment facilities... resulting in fewer beds for detainees.
Post reply on HN