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What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

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Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#61

Post by rolph »

chillacy wrote: post #31

There are now 3 positions in american discourse on climate change: 1. It's not happening / not real 2. It's happening and we can still prevent it 3. It's happening and it's worse than we all think Externalities aren't correctly priced into our market and we're suffering the consequences.

I think there is a 4th position not in discourse:

  4. Im so old i will die before it kills me,
 and im rich/influential enough to buy a comfortable situation for myself until that day.
or alternatively, "Its Not My Problem."

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#62

Post by hyperman1 »

reallydude wrote: post #35
ghobs91 wrote: post #23

1. Even if we can't completely prevent it, we can stop it from being much worse. 2. Regardless of the climate changer factor, polluting the air causes cancer, damages ecosystems, harms our food supply, etc. The mentality of "we can't prevent it, so why bother trying" is like accidentally shooting yourself in the foot, and when finding out it'll have to be amputated, proceeding to shoot your other foot because "what's…

The survival of our technological civilization is very much uncertain. It has been since the nuclear age. If someone wanted to take meaningful action, they would be sinking container ships. In aggregate, they contribute to more pollution (of all kinds), than most singular countries. Nobody is going to war over this, so it's inevitable. If it's inevitable, it's not healthy to pretend otherwise. The earth will survive,…

Serious question: I always see 'humans will survive' in these kinds of posts. Why? We know most of the past species are extinct, we are in the middle of a mass extinction event, the climate crisis hasn't even fully begun, and there are other serious problems coming.

So I don't want to be negative, but I do want to stay realistic. Does someone know why humans will survive, and on which time scale this prediction is valid .

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#63

Post by pharke »

tormeh wrote: post #2

Really disheartened that it will hit during my lifetime. Had hoped to dodge it, really. How do you, as an individual, prepare for this?

There seem to be a bunch of self-centered pessimists replying to you so I'll try to give a real response.

If you don't already work in an industry that is doing research towards or creating a product that makes a difference, change careers. The solution to this, both on an individual and collective level, is not to give up and hide in a hole hoping you die quietly in your sleep. The solution is to fucking solve the problem.

We need smart people in engineering, nuclear science, agriculture, bioscience, and politics. People that give a damn and aren't satisfied to sit on their asses and wistfully dream of eco-primitivist utopias. Put your resources into skilling up and move to a center where shit is getting done. Talk to people that are working on the problem and find a job that is actively moving the needle.

If we can't fix it then at least you'll die trying rather than cowering.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#65

Post by NeedMoreTea »

tempsolution wrote: post #60

It is a bit like with a formula one car. If you go through the curve with 100 mph, you will die, because you really need to go through the curve at 200 mph for aerodynamics to give you enough downward force to keep you on the track... We are in a very similar situation here. We need to aggressively speed up and focus our engineering efforts to understand nature and to potentially "suck the gases out of the atmosphere…

If we can't keep biosphere 1.0 viable, we have bugger all chance of creating a viable and sustainable extra planetary one. Besides how many launches will be needed to get 7bn to biosphere 2.0? Whatever the answer it's cheaper and easier to address AGW right here, right now. Or does your backup plan only involve sending a tiny few off planet?...

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#66

Post by faissaloo »

adrianN wrote: post #8

The thing is, it's already too late to prevent pretty terrible effects of climate change, but it's not too late to stop it from getting even worse . Every tenth of a degree can make a world of difference. So while we will most certainly not stay below 1.5°, the difference between 2 and 3 degrees is huge, and the efforts we make today decide in what world we'll live in. Resigning to the inevitable now is a surefire re…

It is, we don't live in a system that would allow us to prevent things getting worse.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#67

Post by faissaloo »

fuzzy2 wrote: post #58
armagon wrote: post #52

The book "Superfreakonomics" had a chapter on simple, cheap solutions to problems, and suggested one for global warming -- there was a 'year with no summer' in which a volcano introduced chemicals into the atmosphere (sorry, I don't have the details handy) which cooled down the earth, and that we have huge amounts of the stuff as a waste material -- we'd just need to put it into the upper atmosphere. Now, I see that…

Because we don't understand enough to be sure it wouldn't cause unintended negative side effects. I read that one possibility is less rain. Which is obviously something we don't want. It's already not enough.

We don't understand enough to ensure anything we've done wouldn't cause unintended negative side effects but as it stands we're headed for utter destruction so doing something might be better than nothing.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#68

Post by yyyk »

api wrote: post #24
yyyk wrote: post #9

"Some climate activists argue that if we publicly admit that the problem can’t be solved, it will discourage people from taking any ameliorative action at all... But the impending catastrophe heightens the urgency of almost any world-improving action... these are all meaningful climate actions" 1) Argues that giving up hope does not mean the end of attempts to ameliorate warming. 2) Proceeds to define 'climate action…

I think no-hope talk might have a paradoxical motivating effect and in a way conveys how bad it could be if we get anything south of a median scenario.

Unlikely. e.g. see the comments here on HN.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#69

Post by aerophilic »

One solution, which I admit is out there, is what if we actively cook the earth?

While yes, it would be an engineering challenge, I think it is quite reasonable to create an “adjustable solar shade”. Basically build up enough reflectors at the Lagrange point to selectively “cool” parts of earth. Yes, it would be a massive undertaking, but could potentially be done mostly autonomously.

If our timeline is 30 years, this may be more achievable than alternatives.

Elevator pitch: use materials from asteroids to build huge reflectors in space. Side benefit is it would enable large scale mining of the sky.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#70

Post by faissaloo »

tormeh wrote: post #2

Really disheartened that it will hit during my lifetime. Had hoped to dodge it, really. How do you, as an individual, prepare for this?

Learn as much as you can and practice being resourceful, information is power, medicine, chemistry and biology in particular are extremely important. If we have to endure catastrophic collapse being able to construct things like makeshift air cooling, air and water filtering systems from raw and waste materials will be paramount.
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