I'm not really sure whether to agree or disagree. I have asian parents and went through the whole ordeal. I can honestly say that, as a kid, I didn't enjoy it, but then again, I can't imagine anyone would. However, I definitely would not be as knowledgeable, intelligent, or well brought up without the asian schooling. This article and most people against asian parenting's viewpoint is from the outsiders viewpoint. Th…
Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
61–70 of 217 posts
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#62A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…
For one Agassi, there are a thousand Chinese children pushed as hard that don't make it anywhere. That's the kids you should be considering when choosing a parenting style. They will only resent tennis and their father. There was no time for anything else, so mediocre tennis players is all they are. Thanks mum.
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#63This makes me think of Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet, where he tells a parent their children will live in a time they can never visit or see and therefore must let their children have their own thoughts. The excerpt "On Children": Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life’s longing for itself. They come through you but not from you, And though they are with you yet they belong not to…
I was chatting with a friend who is studying education for her PhD about the article. We were unimpressed by Chua's approach and think it's quite too extreme.
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Come on, now! Achievement and having fun aren't mutually exclusive, like you seem to believe. If anything, they should go hand-in-hand. In your world-view, you seem to believe that you either end up like Andrei Agassi, or some middle-aged loser. I teach chess to this 12 year old Chinese boy. He clearly has zero interest in progressing his game. And yet, his mother is there, always pushing him senselessly into a vocat…
> Come on, now! Achievement and having fun aren't mutually exclusive, like you seem to believe. That's not what I said, not what I meant, and not what I believe... c'mon now, mis-summarizing someone's point of view leads to total breakdowns in communication. Let's not do that.
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#65A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…
On this topic, I intend to teach my kids the three things my father told me over and over and over as a kid:
1. A job worth doing is a job worth doing well.
2. Winners concentrate on winning. Losers concentrate on getting by.
3. You can do anything you set your mind to.
If they want to use that to become #1 in the world at tennis or #347 at being a middle manager in a warehouse in Nevada, that's great. Life isn't about being #1 in the world or being a celebrity or marrying another celebrity. It's being secure in who you are and the choices you've made.Here's to all the middle managers in Nevada who love their jobs :)
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#66Just my couple of cents worth of first hand input... Most Chinese families aren't crazy-obsessed with achievement - I'd say about 1/4 of them exhibit this kind of insane behavior, but that's still a very, very high rate, which is where this stereotype comes from. The rest are similar to their high-achieving white counterpart families. Just as a data point, my two parents (two MDs and one PhD, yeah, it could have been…
What are they supposed to do when they are beaten and locked out of the house for 24 hours with no food to eat?
A not unrelated issue is the high rate of Asian American girls/women who refuse to date and marry Asian guys. It's so blindingly obvious as to why, I'm surprised anyone ever has to ask the question.
Your hypothesis is incorrect. Asian females greatly prefer middle eastern, and whites over asian males. Both of which presumably do not have a background of strict parenting.
http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/race_affects/Reply-By-Race-Male.p...
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#67A contrary viewpoint: After studying a number of different cultures and backgrounds and histories, I'm generally an admirer of the school of parenting laid out by Chua. Well, I think some of the more insulting/demeaning/negative-reinforcement isn't so great, but the overall focus on achievement and duty as superior to having fun... I do respect that. I'll explain why - I used to think the opposite until I read Andre…
The plural of anecdote is not data. The story about Agassi is nice, but a red herring. Most people do not succeed in such a spectacular way. They remain mediocre and still 'hate tennis and their father'. A prime example are Chinese olympic teams. If you've seen the documentary about the rowing team, hand-picked, drilled in military style and note they still losing to Western teams, you can be nothing but sad for them…
The question isn't whether you achieve the highest levels of success - it's how results stack up on average... I tend to think the achievement/duty style of parenting does well at producing good results on balance. A lot of the numbers bare this out, depending on what you're looking for.
> That's the kids you should be considering when choosing a parenting still. My children may be mediocre, but their happy memories will last them forever.
But they're not mutually exclusive... it seems to me that purpose, meaning, duty, striving outperforms gunning for happiness. But this is the opposite of what most people in the West believe right now.
I disagree respectfully. Everyone chooses their own parenting style, but I think a focus on achievement and duty in younger years leads to more well-being and a better foundation than just-do-whatever-everyone's-a-winner. There's lots of ground in between them, but a slight shift towards achievement/duty seems like it'd cure a lot of the angst and confusion and unhappiness among young people in the West right now.
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#68Just my couple of cents worth of first hand input... Most Chinese families aren't crazy-obsessed with achievement - I'd say about 1/4 of them exhibit this kind of insane behavior, but that's still a very, very high rate, which is where this stereotype comes from. The rest are similar to their high-achieving white counterpart families. Just as a data point, my two parents (two MDs and one PhD, yeah, it could have been…
I would like to bring up a possibility, which is possibly controversial: a lot of these kids let themselves be trampled on by their parents. What are they supposed to do when they are beaten and locked out of the house for 24 hours with no food to eat? A not unrelated issue is the high rate of Asian American girls/women who refuse to date and marry Asian guys. It's so blindingly obvious as to why, I'm surprised anyon…
Is this a serious question?
If that happens, you call the cops like the victim of any other kind of assault. I have a friend who did this and had dad arrested and taken to court. It worked phenomenally well - she was never beat ever again - wonder why?!
> Both of which presumably do not have a background of strict parenting
Nah bro, your reading is incorrect, not my hypothesis.
That's my point. Having an Asian significant other would be too much of a reminder of their shitty upbringing, or they irrationally believe they would be somehow subjecting their own kids to the same experience. I personally think it's a post traumatic stress reaction.
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#69I am a western (Brazilian-American) living in China. All this drilling and tests may sound crazy, but I do think it teaches an important value that is missing in the west's education: discipline My wife is a teacher. She taught kids in the US (California) and here in China. One difference is that in the US a huge amount of her preparation time is spent on making lessons interesting to students, otherwise they disconn…
I came to the U.S. from Eastern Europe and went to a U.S. college. The introductory science textbooks were all guilty of this. The biology textbooks especially were simply unbearable to me. What makes learning material interesting to an American kid is not necessarily going to make it interesting to someone outside of the American culture. Also, some smarter kids are simply bored by the lame attempts of textbook publishers to add "pizzas" to make the material appear "interesting." Smarter kids just want content, in the most concise form possible, so that it would not take a lot of time to read and understand it.
The thing that struck me most about American education: kids carrying around huge heavy backpacks with huge heavy glossy textbooks in them (those books would have cost a month's salary from where I was originally from) that were full of either cartoon-like drawings in poorly chosen colors or "stories" in colored boxes that all had very little to do with actual content and talked down to me as if I were mentally challenged. Oh, and those textbooks were published like every year or so in a new edition, so that you could not resell once you bought one and used it for the course. I was extremely happy when I got to graduate-level courses because it meant no more of those retarded textbooks.
Re: Why Chinese Mothers are Not Superior (from a female Chinese engineer)
#70There is tremendous value in learning and discipline, and my observation of American schools makes me think that American schools are pretty weaksauce in the discipline and focus department. I don't think anyone out there denies that.
To pick at a particular example of Chua - music. I am better-suited than some others to look at this, since I myself - and my sister - spent time learning music as children and into our college years.
Mrs Chua! Your kids do well in violin and piano. And only violin and piano. Why violin and piano? Is the trumpet - a fine instrument! - beneath them? Or the viola, an underappreciated sibling to the violin? Perhaps it was simply too blue-collar to consider such an instrument as the guitar and its fine heritage in baroque European works. Or perhaps your children's true ability would have been in the drums. But, no, alas. It was the high-brow, well-respected violin and piano you chose for them. How simple it is to say, "ah, these are the respected instruments, the instruments bringing good face to us". Mrs. Chua, you have deeply restricted your children's musical activities. You really should not have done that. There is no call to regulate and legislate play like that. You should have let them explore their own mind, their own heart. They are Human beings too, and their perspective should be taken into account for their play. If they sought after being a professional musician, then there would have been time for focus, and much of it. Focus is the hallmark of a professional! But play is something else.