The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites • Hacker News Board

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#61

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

AYBABTME wrote: post #17

tempsy wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are more naive than you think. Think for a second. The most egregious example of this is the Sackler family's ( Purdue Pharma/Opioids) massive donations to the arts/museums. They should not receive the glory and praise for their generosity to the arts for triggering the deaths of so many Americans in the pursuit of drug profits.

I think the naive approach is to think that things are black and white, absolutely good or absolutely bad, and so on by mere association. Scientifically useful results from scientists that are awful humans are still useful results on their own. A donation to a University (assuming no strings attached) doesn't make the University wrong by association, despite a donator who's an awful entity. Governments collect taxes…

It does when you know the donor is awful and you conceal the origin of the donation.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#62

Post by rowanG077 » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

human20190310 wrote: post #48

rowanG077 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think Epstein funding some research washes him of his past transgressions? I have never heard anyone say that. Nor do I think we should stop people that have done wrong from doing right afterwards because it could "wash their reputations from past transgressions". We have something called the law that should bring justice to people.

> You think Epstein funding some research washes him of his past transgressions? No, but it helps him maintain his social standing, which was a key factor in the lenient sentence he got for his conviction. Connections were a form of insurance for Epstein.

Is there any proof to your claim?

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#63

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:28 PM UTC

davrosthedalek wrote: post #31

bb88 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So taxes are mandatory. They don't change the reputation of a person. Charitable contributions can make a sleazeball look like a boy scout, when in fact deep down he's profiting on human misery.

I agree, but these contributions were anonymous. So the reach of the sleazeball to boy scout effect was limited to the people Epstein talked to anyway, and could see the sleazeballness first hand.

They were anonymous because the recipients hid the fact of their origin. There are receipts of their conversations about this.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#64

Post by bb88 » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

davrosthedalek wrote: post #36

bb88 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's ironic, is that's the same mentality that Joichi Ito had to resign for. Money that comes from illegal or immoral activity colors it. You may think it's the same money, but the source of the money is important for institutions that have moral and ethical standards.

No quite. He also hid the donation from MIT, as Epstein was blacklisted. That part alone should get him fired.

What? How does that prove my point wrong? If anything, it amplifies my point.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#65

Post by tomjakubowski » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

marcinzm wrote: post #30

bradly wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd like to recognize a rapist for their charitable givings? edit: This was a poor comment. I shouldn't have phrased my point in such a crass way when I do not actually believe rowanG077 thinks what I wrote above. Sorry for my tone, rowanG077. It wasn't helpful to the conversation.

Where is the line? If you stole something at 16 does that mean you're to be shunned from society forever? Is the line rape? Is it murder? Sexual assault? Being a nazi? Being a conservative? Being a liberal? Associating with someone in the shunned group? And what aren't we allowed to do with these people? Accept their money? Talk to them? Have dinner with them? Be in the same room as them? Same building? Be friends wi…

You can begin to talk about rehabilitating abhorrent people only after they've demonstrated some contrition for their actions and growth towards being better. By all accounts, Epstein showed none of that.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#66

Post by anigbrowl » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:30 PM UTC

rowanG077 wrote: post #34

bb88 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Jeffrey Epstein Modern Art Wing The Jeffrey Epstein Pediatric Fund for Incurable Childhood Illnesses The Jeffrey Epstein Research Lab at MIT The Jeffrey Epstein Fund for Worldwide Peace (Note: some of these I'm sure I made up...)

This doesn't answer the question. You really think a person that knows Epstein has done the things he has done and knows about the "The Jeffrey Epstein Research Lab at MIT" is going to think that Epstein is some A OK dude?

How do you think he got away with what he did for so long? People would hear 'that Epstein fellow is said to be pedophile' and think 'Jeffrey Epstein, respectable philanthropist? Surely not.'

Why are you caping so hard for this guy?

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#67

Post by loeg » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:33 PM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #38

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Charitable contributions can make a sleazeball look like a boy scout Well, that's not the sleazeball's or the charity's problem. If you and other people don't think he's a "boy scout" then he won't be seen as one. If you do, he will.

So MIT should be able to accept money profited from Child Traffickers and Drug Cartels?

Reframed: No, MIT shouldn't knowingly give money to child traffickers and drug cartels.

I don't understood the argument for non-politician organizations returning donations from problematic people. By keeping the money, you're enriching your organization, at expense to the bad person. Win-win for society.

For politicians and political organizations, there is an implicit association with bribery, so in that case I can understand demands to refusing contributions from bad donors. (But even there, better to redirect it to a good charity than to return it to the "bad donor.")

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#68

Post by bb88 » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

rowanG077 wrote: post #51

bb88 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most likely, you didn't know about the evils of Jeffrey Epstein until a Miami Herald reporter started to dig into the story, and then got picked up by national papers. Had that not have happened, most people to this day would still think he's probably an "A OK dude."

I didn't hear about the evils of Jeffrey Epstein. In fact I didn't know the guy at all. But to disprove your point. If I go back one year with the wayback machine and look at his wikipedia the first sentence on his page mentions he is a registered sex offender[1]. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20180807122025/https://en.wikipe...

Back in 2008, Epstein was convicted of a single prostitution charge [1]. The word "trafficking" doesn't even appear in that story. It makes it sound like Epstein had a weak moment frankly.

It was only after the Miami Herald story came out did we learn about the child trafficking that took place -- and then this year it became a huge national story.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/business/01epstein.html

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#69

Post by loeg » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

adamnemecek wrote: post #43

lone_haxx0r wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, though that's probably illegal on the donor's side, but I see no problem with MIT receiving it.

Rethink your stance.

Unsubstantiated imperative sentences with no further context are not especially compelling arguments and do not meet the usual merit bar for comments on this site.

Re: The Epstein scandal at MIT shows the moral bankruptcy of techno elites

#70

Post by darawk » Sat, Sep 07, 2019, 10:35 PM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #54

darawk wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that actually launder anyone's reputation? Epstein was doing this sort of stuff before he was ever arrested. He seems to have been legitimately interested in funding science research. Unfortunately the world is actually complicated and people aren't simply one-dimensional villains. The guy did some genuinely good things, in a seemingly honest way. That doesn't in any way absolve him of the horrible things he did…

Yes. It does. Money changes minds. And if you believe it does not, I have $100,000 that says it will.

Him donating to MIT doesn't change my mind about him. I'm not sure what your $100,000 point is about, he wasn't offering to pay everyone on earth to like him.