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What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

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Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#61

Post by sam0x17 »

kottbullar wrote: post #41
pmorais wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, once you hit a certain salary more money doesn’t even appreciably increase your quality of life. And I think most good software engineers are already close to that asymptote

In the US maybe, but definitely not in most of Europe. Software engineers are not as valued here as they are in some parts of the US (SF bay area, Seattle, etc.). As a result, salaries here are pretty miserable. I'm a very senior developer in my 30s who lives in Sweden. I have a "good salary" (make the same or more than every other dev that I know in my age bracket), which translates to a take-home pay of around 45k…

Anything under 700k USD for a 4 bedroom sounds super cheap to me :/

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#62

Post by kod »

scarface74 wrote: post #58
0xDEFC0DE wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more exciting if I'm making $300k google salaries at the end of the track. A track with 6-7 difficult rungs and +10% pay increase? nah, I'm good.

If you live in a major city in the US outside of the west coast or NYC where both the salary and the cost of living are lower, software developer salaries from my experience range from $60-$90 on the low end to $140-$155K on the high end. That for team leads, architects, principal developers or even low level managers. You’re going to top out as a developer after about a decade if you’re semi aggressive. The only way…

I've definitely seen individual contributor salaries in the 170-190 range in Austin.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#63

Post by super-serial »

draw_down wrote: post #4

Call me unambitious but I think I’d rather just write some code every day.

You can be ambitious and still hate everything to do with career tracks and personal development as seen by large corporations.

I make sure I work somewhere that isn't too stressful, and pace myself as much as possible at the dayjob so I can work 20+ hours per week on my own business.

I wish I could have a 3-day workweek so the other 4 days I could be coding my own projects. After $100k why do people even want more money? I just want more time to work on my projects for a chance to have my own business. I'll never understand why so many people choose to be put into golden handcuffs.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#64

Post by donogh »

kottbullar wrote: post #41
pmorais wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, once you hit a certain salary more money doesn’t even appreciably increase your quality of life. And I think most good software engineers are already close to that asymptote

In the US maybe, but definitely not in most of Europe. Software engineers are not as valued here as they are in some parts of the US (SF bay area, Seattle, etc.). As a result, salaries here are pretty miserable. I'm a very senior developer in my 30s who lives in Sweden. I have a "good salary" (make the same or more than every other dev that I know in my age bracket), which translates to a take-home pay of around 45k…

Not true of all of Europe. Irish salaries go as high as twice that for similar seniority.

Cost of living isn't lower, especially in Dublin, our healthcare system is a slightly worse, college isn't totally free (3k/year or so), and pensions less generous.

On balance though, you'd still be better off working here.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#65

Post by danpalmer »

ohazi wrote: post #19
danpalmer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where this has been implemented well, the limitation is essentially C-suite level, because those are the highest level and inherently management positions, however it's common for something along the lines of Principle/Fellow/Distinguished engineers (terminology differs) to be equivalent to the step down from C level. That said, while these roles don't include management, they may end up being mostly outreach rather…

I've never seen an organization both credibly claim that their tracks had equivalent benefits (e.g. similar compensation), and also have comparable leveling requirements for both tracks. The bar for going up the management track is always lower. The difference at some companies is so stark that they sometimes feel the need to justify it with statements like "the title of fellow is reserved for truly world class engin…

Fair point. I guess maybe it diverges at the point where need diverges?

All companies need managers of some sort, and at the size we're talking about all companies will need a hierarchy of managers. Not all companies need a "Distinguished Engineer".

I think this is still an aspect that can be done better. If the top level of management (before C-suite, not in reporting chain) is some sort of mentor status, I'm not a fan of the term but an "Agile coach", or some sort of expert like that, maybe that's a better equal to the Principle Engineer – still fairly optional, very high level, etc.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#66

Post by zuhayeer »

codingdave wrote: post #2

I find it interesting that a culture is being described here where Senior Engineers are considered lower level, with multiple higher levels above that. It just goes to show that titles mean different things at different companies, and you cannot generalize across this industry. I've had the "Staff Software Engineer" title once in my career. It was at IBM, in the 90s, where it was a was a title given to anyone who was…

There’s a lot of asymmetry in leveling titles / nomenclature. A friend and I ended up building http://levels.fyi to help map these titles across different companies, they certainly don’t mean the same thing everywhere

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#67

Post by scarface74 »

kod wrote: post #62
scarface74 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in a major city in the US outside of the west coast or NYC where both the salary and the cost of living are lower, software developer salaries from my experience range from $60-$90 on the low end to $140-$155K on the high end. That for team leads, architects, principal developers or even low level managers. You’re going to top out as a developer after about a decade if you’re semi aggressive. The only way…

I've definitely seen individual contributor salaries in the 170-190 range in Austin.

I was more putting scale into perspective comparing the rest of the country to Silicon Valley. A 10-20% variance is believable. But still nowhere near SV/ west coast total comp.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#68

Post by scarface74 »

super-serial wrote: post #63
draw_down wrote: post #4

Call me unambitious but I think I’d rather just write some code every day.

You can be ambitious and still hate everything to do with career tracks and personal development as seen by large corporations. I make sure I work somewhere that isn't too stressful, and pace myself as much as possible at the dayjob so I can work 20+ hours per week on my own business. I wish I could have a 3-day workweek so the other 4 days I could be coding my own projects. After $100k why do people even want more m…

I’m nowhere near Silicon Valley or the west coast - I’m on the opposite side of the country in Atlanta. Yes I know people here live a good life, have a house, go on trips etc with a household income of less than six figures, but making more gives you a lot more “Ands” and less “ors”.

You can have the nice house in the burbs, max out your 401K, enjoy decent date nights with your SO every pay period, save for vacations, pay other people to do stuff you don’t want to do (occasional meal prep, yard service, etc), and have enough left for the things that go bump in the night. Realistically, for all the “ands” it takes about $150K to $200K of household income. That’s without getting the biggest house, the nicest cars and the most expensive vacations.

Also, I see “having my own business” and “having a less stressful life” as being the opposite of each other.

I don’t have to worry about finding customers, budgets, marketing, and I have st least six weeks a year paid time off between vacation time and holidays.

If the company disappears tomorrow I get another job.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#69

Post by draw_down »

dbcurtis wrote: post #48
draw_down wrote: post #4

Call me unambitious but I think I’d rather just write some code every day.

Yes, well, at some point you get tired of seeing people make the same mistakes over and over. Those people might be senior engineers tasked with architectural design for the first time. Those people might be management with their heads up their....um, with misguided ideas. So the Senior Staff position may involve less day-to-day coding/design, but a lot more heading off disaster, which I would argue adds huge value t…

Yes, if “impact to the company” is an important metric to you, you should probably climb the ladder. I can’t identify with that, though. I just want to do my little piece and focus on the rest of my life.

It’s ok if the company ends up doing something it shouldn’t have. That is just what happens. When I was younger, I spent a lot of energy fretting about such things; people didn’t listen to me. I learned to make peace with that, rather than vow to have my opinions heard. Besides, who is to say that I wouldn’t have just steered the ship into a different iceberg.

I’m one of those crazy people who thinks unlimited vacation is a good idea and not a scam, done correctly of course.

I suppose you’re right that I could magically change my mind one day. Hasn’t happened yet, 15 years in.

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