I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist • Hacker News Board

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#61

Post by thatswrong0 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

azhu wrote: post #57

machinecontrol wrote: post #3

Serious, not intended to flame bait question: Why is race/gender featured so prominently in this technical post? Would it be appropriate to open a post with “black men in tech had a twitter meltdown”?

Because for some, race/gender is a primary factor in how they experience being a developer. I believe that is the fundamental point the article is making -- that the reasons why React is what it is today are not necessarily objective and totally sound but rather significantly influenced by what ideas and interests were already in the population at the cost of other ideas that may require more of a leap from the mains…

Just like this whole drama, this attitude (I don’t like my gender and race being the focus of things, therefore I’m going to do it to you) seems counter-productive to the cause of inclusion and diversity.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#62

Post by thatswrong0 » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 5:35 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #49

wnkrshm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the first time I've heard about this emoji being in some way connected to white suppremacy... is this a thing? Edit: relevant wikipedia article [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OK_gesture#As_a_white_power_sy... It seems online culture is so plastic that we can quickly see a move from irony/trolling to sincere usage. How is a person not at the fronts of where hateful groups and their opponents meet supposed t…

Probably referring to this crap: https://twitter.com/tatianatmac/status/1164912554876891137 part of this breakdown: https://dev.to/aryanjnyc/ken-wheeler-and-dan-abramov-deactiv... I think people with such obsessions, bringing their baggage of politics everywhere should be thrown out of tech communities discussing tech. They can form whatever meta-community they like for that. I have seen absolutely zero ..."white sup…

Yeah it’s just a ridiculous situation. I had to unfollow all React related things on Twitter the moment I saw people lambasting Dan Abramov as “selfish” for disabling his Twitter for the sake of his sanity. It’s one thing to promote diversity, it’s another to create massive problems for the innocent over nothing.. especially the innocent that have been nothing _but_ genuinely supportive of your cause.

It seems that the cancel-cult left has really taken hold, at least in the loud places on social media.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#63

Post by bayesian_horse » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 6:34 AM UTC

k__ wrote: post #46

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is country specific, and girls who take offense are primarily in the USA or have learned American English.

The problem doesn't seem to be that it is male in some places and neutral in others, but that it's considered neutral even tho' it's clearly male.

It doesn't really matter what it "clearly" is. Equally clearly there are women who feel offended by it.

Also please be aware that many comments here are complaining about complaints of a minority (among developers) they don't belong to.

It's really not a big surprise that white male developers don't quite get why black female developers feel offended. Maybe something to think about...

And even if you don't agree that something is offense-worthy, please just acknowledge that some people genuinely do feel that way and that most of them are actually silent on the issue, exactly because of the reactions on display here.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#64

Post by bayesian_horse » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 6:35 AM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #47

k__ wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem doesn't seem to be that it is male in some places and neutral in others, but that it's considered neutral even tho' it's clearly male.

Guy is only clearly male in American English. Guy Fawkes was male of course, but the term “some anonymous guy” does not refer to anyone in particular. The word has clearly evolved differently in the states than it did in the UK which originated it.

That's a big "only" when we are talking about American developers at an American Conference.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#65

Post by bayesian_horse » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 6:44 AM UTC

mieseratte wrote: post #55

bayesian_horse wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nasty history is quite often the difference between a racist value judgement and a relatively innocent statement about people. Racists can often behind ignoring that distinction. It's called a dog-whistle.

> Nasty history is quite often the difference between a racist value judgement and a relatively innocent statement about people. One shouldn't use history to justify their own racism. > Racists can often behind ignoring that distinction. It's called a dog-whistle. That's simply not what a dog-whistle is.

Please don't explain what you mean by "their own racism". I don't accept reverse racism BS...

And yes, ignoring nasty history is dog-whistling. You can say certain things, which are clearly perceived as racist by racists and the offended, and then avoid responsibility by claiming "it's only because the history".

Example: It's not antisemitic to blame George Soros (a jew) for political influence through his money, except that there is a broad and infamous history of such conspiracy theories. Same for "dual loyalty".

It's not racist or insensitive to use black-face as a disguise, except for the long history of mistrel-acts of making fun of Afro-American (slaves) for being lazy, uncultured and stupid.

It's not necessarily racist to suspect a Muslim of being a terrorist. Hey, there may actually be valid and objective reasons for such a suspicion. But especially because of the context and the history of Muslims being accosted as such and being targeted all the time, such claims better have substantial proof.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#66

Post by flippinburgers » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

bayesian_horse wrote: post #65

mieseratte wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nasty history is quite often the difference between a racist value judgement and a relatively innocent statement about people. One shouldn't use history to justify their own racism. > Racists can often behind ignoring that distinction. It's called a dog-whistle. That's simply not what a dog-whistle is.

Please don't explain what you mean by "their own racism". I don't accept reverse racism BS... And yes, ignoring nasty history is dog-whistling. You can say certain things, which are clearly perceived as racist by racists and the offended, and then avoid responsibility by claiming "it's only because the history". Example: It's not antisemitic to blame George Soros (a jew) for political influence through his money, exc…

Reverse racism doesn't exist. Racism is racism.

Re: I have a problem with React and spend a lot of time talking to my therapist

#67

Post by bayesian_horse » Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 11:11 AM UTC

bayesian_horse wrote: post #65

mieseratte wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nasty history is quite often the difference between a racist value judgement and a relatively innocent statement about people. One shouldn't use history to justify their own racism. > Racists can often behind ignoring that distinction. It's called a dog-whistle. That's simply not what a dog-whistle is.

Please don't explain what you mean by "their own racism". I don't accept reverse racism BS... And yes, ignoring nasty history is dog-whistling. You can say certain things, which are clearly perceived as racist by racists and the offended, and then avoid responsibility by claiming "it's only because the history". Example: It's not antisemitic to blame George Soros (a jew) for political influence through his money, exc…

There is, however, a phenomenon called "reverse racism" where privileged members of a majority try to complain about things like affirmative action or diversity outreach.

The idea that there is a discrimination against white people in "traditionally white" countries is absolutely ridiculous. Ethnically motivated violence, for example in the US, is also quite one-sided.