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WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

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Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#61
post #10

I like that WeWork is finally forcing us to have the conversation about WTF a "tech company" even is. A company that sells software? Or one that employs a lot of engineers? Or companies that use a lot of tech in their operations? Companies with a presence in San Francisco and Kombucha on tap? Are big banks tech companies? Insurance providers? Hospitals, auto manufacturers, oil and gas... What isn't a tech company?

Probably by the kind of people that rise to leadership in the firm. Engineers would have more decision making power in a company that produces software. Not so much in a bank or hospital.

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#62
post #10

I like that WeWork is finally forcing us to have the conversation about WTF a "tech company" even is. A company that sells software? Or one that employs a lot of engineers? Or companies that use a lot of tech in their operations? Companies with a presence in San Francisco and Kombucha on tap? Are big banks tech companies? Insurance providers? Hospitals, auto manufacturers, oil and gas... What isn't a tech company?

I find it interesting how many people equate tech with software.

I would consider tech a lot broader than that; if your company is making any kind of new innovative approach to solving problems (and the future of the business depends on this), you're a tech company. So companies making lasers, robots, drones, sensors, 3D printers, DC-DC converters, batteries, and housing insulation could all be tech companies... As long as they're trying something new. So a battery company that is testing new formulations is a tech company, and one that just mass produces the same alkali cells they've been making for 50 years is not.

Software is just one sub-category.

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#63
post #26
post #10

I like that WeWork is finally forcing us to have the conversation about WTF a "tech company" even is. A company that sells software? Or one that employs a lot of engineers? Or companies that use a lot of tech in their operations? Companies with a presence in San Francisco and Kombucha on tap? Are big banks tech companies? Insurance providers? Hospitals, auto manufacturers, oil and gas... What isn't a tech company?

Is it really that important to define the term precisely? It doesn't seem like the term is used precisely, so what's the point in defining it precisely?

It makes a big difference in the aggregated analysis of the IPO market. Tech is one of the few IPO areas that actually come close to matching the S&P500 returns (tech did better than any other IPO category). So, most companies going public want to be considered and valued as "tech".

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#64
post #62
post #10

I like that WeWork is finally forcing us to have the conversation about WTF a "tech company" even is. A company that sells software? Or one that employs a lot of engineers? Or companies that use a lot of tech in their operations? Companies with a presence in San Francisco and Kombucha on tap? Are big banks tech companies? Insurance providers? Hospitals, auto manufacturers, oil and gas... What isn't a tech company?

I find it interesting how many people equate tech with software. I would consider tech a lot broader than that; if your company is making any kind of new innovative approach to solving problems (and the future of the business depends on this), you're a tech company. So companies making lasers, robots, drones, sensors, 3D printers, DC-DC converters, batteries, and housing insulation could all be tech companies... As l…

So tech = innovation? I don't think that's a common definition.

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#65
post #10

I like that WeWork is finally forcing us to have the conversation about WTF a "tech company" even is. A company that sells software? Or one that employs a lot of engineers? Or companies that use a lot of tech in their operations? Companies with a presence in San Francisco and Kombucha on tap? Are big banks tech companies? Insurance providers? Hospitals, auto manufacturers, oil and gas... What isn't a tech company?

In an ideal world, we wouldn't care about which company is called a tech company and which isn't. This reminds me of that famous Bezos quote to the question of whether Amazon is an internet company or not.

He said "It doesn't matter whether we are a pure internet play or not. Internet, Schminternet, it doesn't matter. What matters is obsessing over providing customer value."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyrmPMJoG0Q

That said, it is altogether a different question whether WeWork provides value for customers in a fiscally responsible and sustainable manner, and whether Nuemann has the foresight and business acumen of Bezos.

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#66
post #20

It's a 1920s (pre-FDIC) bank, or a 2008-style risky financial instrument, like an Auction-Rate Preferred. WeWork's business model is "borrow short, lend long." That is, they accept very short term promises to pay (month to month leases from customers), and aggregate them to make very long term promises to pay (mutli year leases from suppliers). Keep the spread. This works as long as there are lots of customers who wi…

Their business is structured in such a way that the leases they signed on their locations aren't really enforceable against WeWork itself, but rather against "special purpose vehicles", I'm guessing one per lease?[1] It costs a bit in insurance but substantially limits their liability. So, in a downturn, even if "short termers are done", they can shed properties too, basically with impunity. [1] https://stratechery.c…

Each WeWork office has an SPE that's just for that lease. Every landload wants WeWork on the lease, but won't get it, as WeWork tends to have significant leverage with either the space that they're going after or the desire to have WeWork on the rent roll.

When things are booming, WeWork is advantageous for landlords, and appraisers/the market/potential buyers will underwrite that space positively.

However, there's minimal guarantees that WeWork will actually pay long term, or that you'll have any legal recourse. On top of that there are significant capital costs to a WeWork lease that landlords have to shell out up front. Their leases are typically structured with a lot of free rent up front, so the break even point for a landlord may be many months or years farther out than a typical tenant leasing comparable space.

The losers in the WeWork deal are the landlords, as they're bearing a lot of the risk, and get minimal upside. I'd expect to see a high degree of correlation between WeWork's IPO/stock price and REIT valuations. Underwriting will push the value of a WeWork lease if they can, which will only give more momentum to the bubble.

Source: Worked at a nationally invested REIT that had several WeWork leases in our portfolio

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#67
post #26
post #10

I like that WeWork is finally forcing us to have the conversation about WTF a "tech company" even is. A company that sells software? Or one that employs a lot of engineers? Or companies that use a lot of tech in their operations? Companies with a presence in San Francisco and Kombucha on tap? Are big banks tech companies? Insurance providers? Hospitals, auto manufacturers, oil and gas... What isn't a tech company?

Is it really that important to define the term precisely? It doesn't seem like the term is used precisely, so what's the point in defining it precisely?

Not only is the term loosely defined, but it is not clear why it needs to be mutually exclusive with some other category. You can't be a tech company and some other thing at the same time, apparently.

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#68
post #64
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting how many people equate tech with software. I would consider tech a lot broader than that; if your company is making any kind of new innovative approach to solving problems (and the future of the business depends on this), you're a tech company. So companies making lasers, robots, drones, sensors, 3D printers, DC-DC converters, batteries, and housing insulation could all be tech companies... As l…

So tech = innovation? I don't think that's a common definition.

A car company isn't a company that uses cars, it's a company that makes cars.

Technology is "the application of science to commercial or industrial objectives" according to the dictionary.

But a technology company is a company that makes technology. That inherently requires innovation.

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#69
post #32

I really don't understand the negativity on HN towards WeWork. In principle, how it is different than AirBnB or Uber in regard of being a tech company? It's not like Uber or AirBnB's core compentancies are tech, I'm sure WeWork can also build a dev team making frameworks and research that some day might be used in their core business. The article argues that the difference is that Uber, AirBnB, Yelp, Twitter is a tec…

No the Uber/AirBnB model is to mask and hide risk offloaded to members of public, while simultaneously using apps to bypass regulations on where and how businesses normally operate. They work by committing frequently illegal acts, organized by apps, in such a way as to put the majority of risk upon "independent contractors" rather than themselves.

Now you might point out how WeWorks' shell corporations for each property might act similar, but that's big landlords and banks getting screwed over when WeWork goes under, not individuals. Though individuals might get screwed over in the stock market by giving money to the founders and investors through IPO, but at least if they'd actually read through the hype before investing..

Re: WeWork Isn’t a Tech Company

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their business is structured in such a way that the leases they signed on their locations aren't really enforceable against WeWork itself, but rather against "special purpose vehicles", I'm guessing one per lease?[1] It costs a bit in insurance but substantially limits their liability. So, in a downturn, even if "short termers are done", they can shed properties too, basically with impunity. [1] https://stratechery.c…

Each WeWork office has an SPE that's just for that lease. Every landload wants WeWork on the lease, but won't get it, as WeWork tends to have significant leverage with either the space that they're going after or the desire to have WeWork on the rent roll. When things are booming, WeWork is advantageous for landlords, and appraisers/the market/potential buyers will underwrite that space positively. However, there's m…

Are those SPEs durable against legal challenges that pierce the veil and eliminate the protections for We?
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