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As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

nytimes.com

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Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#61

Post by jdietrich »

giobox wrote: post #49
jdietrich wrote: post #3

Not mentioned in the article: The Scottish heroin epidemic started in Edinburgh, the more prosperous of Scotland's two largest cities. This was largely due to the presence of MacFarlan Smith, which was at one point the world's largest producer of pharmaceutical opiates. That initial cohort of heroin users in the 1980s predominantly used drugs that were diverted from the legitimate pharmaceutical supply rather than sm…

The Macfarlan Smith link is interesting and not something I’ve ever heard before. Is there any other information on this on the web or elsewhere? A google for “Macfarlan Smith” and “Heroin” only returns your comment here as best I could find in a few minutes of searching.

As a pharmaceutical product, heroin is called diamorphine, which should turn up more information. This article from The Scotsman newspaper mentions the theft of diamorphine from the MacFarlan Smith factory.

https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/drug-menace-off-the-st...

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#62

Post by kgwgk »

kenneth wrote: post #45
shellac wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK used to prescribe heroin for addicts, which I understand inspired the Swiss treatment of addicts. Rolling that back as part of the war on addiction seems to have been counterproductive in terms of overall health.

The Swiss experiment was a massive disaster. Wish we had never done it, and it certainly took a few decades to clean up its effect on parts of Zürich. It attracted junkies from all over Europe and with it brought crime and violence. I spent a few years going to primary school near the epicenter of it in the late 90s. The number of times I saw people shooting up in broad daylight right in front of my school… is shocki…

https://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/extern/storytelling/needletraum...

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#63

Post by dls2016 »

jdietrich wrote: post #3

Not mentioned in the article: The Scottish heroin epidemic started in Edinburgh, the more prosperous of Scotland's two largest cities. This was largely due to the presence of MacFarlan Smith, which was at one point the world's largest producer of pharmaceutical opiates. That initial cohort of heroin users in the 1980s predominantly used drugs that were diverted from the legitimate pharmaceutical supply rather than sm…

> The majority of overdose deaths in Scotland involved multiple drugs; for reasons that are not entirely clear, Scottish addicts are particularly prone to concurrently use opiates, benzodiazepines and alcohol in an indiscriminate manner.

I don't believe this is specific to Scotland. My layperson understanding is that heroin is relatively safe in the sense that most opioid deaths fall into one of the following categories: multiple drug interaction (benzos/alcohol being a very common combination), tolerance change due to relapse and, more recently, increased variance in potency due to strong synthetics (fentynyl, carfentanil, etc.). This is the theory behind people who advocate for maintenance prescriptions.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#64

Post by mywacaday »

welly wrote: post #46
Theodores wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is rare information. Never heard of MacFarlan Smith before. To add to the cocktail of drugs there is also glue sniffing. South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue. But this goes on in Glasgow. I found this shocking to see. There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is no…

> South of the border you will never see anyone sniffing glue and I doubt there are many people in England who wake up in the morning with a burning desire to sit in the street sniffing glue This is quite an unsubstantiated claim. Never? Of course you will, and do. > There is also 'Bucky' that alcohol that is not sold south of the border. This is patently false. It's made in Devon at Buckfast Abbey, so of course it's…

Buckfast is also sold in Ireland and it always had a reputation for getting people messed up when drinking.

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckfast_Tonic_Wine

1 bottle 750ml @ 15% alcohol + caffeine equivalent to 8 cans of coke, that will do it alright.

edit good god just found this, why? https://www.dailyedge.ie/buckfast-easter-egg-3300036-Mar2017...

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#65

Post by ocschwar »

fulafel wrote: post #42
Teever wrote: post #32

Does anyone know what is going on with Estonia in that first graph? The first spike in deaths for Estonia seems to happen after the 2008 financial crisis, but I'm surprised to see that the dfinancial crisis hit Estonia harder than the US? What other facts give Estonia a surprisingly high mortality rate from opiates?

Googling some gdp graph tells you that Estonia's GDP dipped -14% in 2009 while some other countries featured in the article's drug graphs had it a lot easier (around -5% for Scotlan, Denmark, USA). Seems like the # of unemployed quintupled as well. Combined with the country's rather light social safety net and relatively low GDP to begin with it must have been pretty nasty.

A lot of young Estonians went west to make money to send home, and that money counts towards GDP in France/England et cetera, not Estonia, even though it then was sent home.

Meanwhile, they were not home to add to the public health statistics, while those who couldn't do that stayed behind, including those who fell into opiate addiction.

So the stats make the Estonian situation look more miserable than it was. (Which is plenty miserable, mind.)

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#66

Post by bredren »

soylentcola wrote: post #50
CalRobert wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, Buckfast is viewed with a bit of affection in Ireland (the Republic) as well. Though I've never seen anyone actually drink it.

I did a semester in Ireland back in the 90's and it was an occasional purchase by myself and other college students. Basically along the lines of how we'd get 40oz malt liquor in the states (or later on, those alcopops with caffeine like Sparks). They don't taste good but they're cheap and strong so they were popular with college kids looking to hang out and get buzzed with friends. Even then we sort of did it with a…

Can anyone compare / contrast Bucky with FourLoko from the US? This was also an energy drink that was forced to reformulate and pay some fines for being too crazy.

I recall people hoarding “original formula” watermelon fourloko when it started disappearing from shelves.

Edit: a decent overview of the “banned” four loko vs reformulates version: https://youtu.be/XUPXFzag258

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#68

Post by vinceguidry »

AnotherRainyDay wrote: post #56
Theodores wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are nit-picking here. I have spent a lot of time in the scummier parts of London and yet to step over some kid sniffing glue. In Glasgow it is an all too common sight. You can check the health statistics and I am sure there are a few parts of North England and Northern Ireland that are similarly blighted but glue is not a problem south of the Watford Gap in the way that it is in Glasgow. Sure Bucky is now stocked…

> I have spent a lot of time in the scummier parts of London and yet to step over some kid sniffing glue. In Glasgow it is an all too common sight. I studied in and now live and work in Glasgow. I've been here for a total of 7 years. I walk to and from work across the city. I'm out late in either the City Center, the west end, Finnieston or the Merchant City at least once a week. I'm maybe out twice a month for past…

Cities are weird beasts. I live in Midtown Atlanta and walk to and from work, I am also out and about sometimes in the evenings. It's one city at these times. But if I'm out late at night, every now and again I'm froggy for a late night walk, I see packs of people just hanging out. I have no idea where they came from, where they live, Midtown is an expensive place, or why they feel like Midtown is a great place to bring your private outdoors party, but I don't encounter it unless I'm off my routine.

It's possible that open drug use might be happening right under your nose and you're never around to see it.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#69

Post by panzagl »

arethuza wrote: post #2

Scotland is a tiny country but it never ceases to horrify me at the depth of the social and health divisions between different parts of the country, Scotland is often described as the "sick man of Europe" and Glasgow in particular has a remarkably bad life expectancy - the "Glasgow Effect": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasgow_effect I can strongly recommend Darren McGarvey's Poverty Safari a personal account of a d…

In the US one of the most persistent areas of poverty and opioid abuse (Appalachia) was largely settled by Scots displaced during the 18th Century. I wonder if anyone has done any research into a correlation, it not there's at least a master's thesis in it for some sociology student somewhere.

Re: As Scotland's 'Trainspotting' Generation Ages, the Dead Pile Up

#70

Post by noodlesUK »

bredren wrote: post #66
soylentcola wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a semester in Ireland back in the 90's and it was an occasional purchase by myself and other college students. Basically along the lines of how we'd get 40oz malt liquor in the states (or later on, those alcopops with caffeine like Sparks). They don't taste good but they're cheap and strong so they were popular with college kids looking to hang out and get buzzed with friends. Even then we sort of did it with a…

Can anyone compare / contrast Bucky with FourLoko from the US? This was also an energy drink that was forced to reformulate and pay some fines for being too crazy. I recall people hoarding “original formula” watermelon fourloko when it started disappearing from shelves. Edit: a decent overview of the “banned” four loko vs reformulates version: https://youtu.be/XUPXFzag258

Buckfast was, and still remains a very potent drink. It’s a very cheap way of doing rather idiotic things and reaching a level of caffeine and alcohol mix that lends itself to university parties or clubbing. However it tastes absolutely awful past the first sip or two, with a flavour resembling cough syrup.

Fourloko seems to have a similar reputations with my friends from universities across the pond, but is a fair bit less alcoholic, and served in large beer can quantities rather than 750ml wine bottles. If you down a bottle of Bucky you’re having a night you probably won’t remember.

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