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GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

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Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#61
post #14

> The plaintiffs believe that because Social Security numbers had a fixed format, GitHub should have been able to identify and remove this data I don't see how they can expect to enforce this with 100% accuracy. SSNs do have a fixed format but other things could potentially follow the same format. For example what if you had a library that lets you configure randomly generated codes in a XXX-XX-XXXX format and it jus…

> SSNs do have a fixed format but other things could potentially follow the same format.

I even have trouble with this premise, in addition to general agreement with a lot of the other comments in this tree arguing that SSN detection is a red herring.

I agree that displaying SSNs for human consumption has an agreed upon standard format. This doesn't imply that code (and therefore any tests or distributions of data) working with SSNs is handling them as XXX-XX-XXXX.

I've seen plenty of clients storing them without dashes in database tables. I saw one storing them as INTs and handling padding in display logic. I don't know if an SSN can start with a leading 0, but they guarded against that.

Especially given the storage and memory implications of a 32-bit integer vs a 9-11 character string, I see lots of reasons to work with SSNs in code as ints. Should we flag all ints as SSNs? Or maybe we can be "reasonable" and flag any integer in the range 100,000,000-999,999,999 (aka 100-00-0000 to 999-99-9999) as an SSN?

I can trivially generate a list containing all valid SSNs with a simple loop. Should I hesitate to publish code with loops over integers in the range above? That code could easily be used by a malicious hacker to generate the SSN list!

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#62
post #7

> The lawsuit said GitHub had an obligation under California law and industry standards to keep off or remove the Social Security numbers and personal information from its site. The plaintiffs believe that because Social Security numbers had a fixed format, GitHub should have been able to identify and remove this data > The lawsuit alleges that by allowing the hacker to store information on its servers, GitHub violat…

There’s a giant wave of political support for this. Right now people are talking on the tv about 8chan and mass shooters. GitHub is being sued for content. The end result will be a (horrifying) market solution m. Site owners will have no choice but to pay outside companies to analyze content for them and auto delete. This will probably end up throwing the baby out with the bath water.

They already do this. I see people on Twitter getting banned daily for mundane, reasonable things like "fuck transphobes" while white supremacists spout hate daily and Twitter does nothing.

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#63
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously entertaining the idea that Github should pour resources into developing a SSN detection pipeline? Why don't they also flag repositories with lots of names, those are PII. Too many addresses? That's a red flag. Why would you even for a second entertain this nonsense? Non-technical people who think this: https://github.com/Hack-with-Github/Awesome-Hacking is a smoking gun to prove Github as a company…

Per EU's GDPR, and maybe the future California Consumer Privacy Act, yes : GitHub should do everything they can to preserve people's privacy. Including maybe flagging and reviewing projects which process PII. GitHub is popular enough that less technical people also browse it, in particular young people looking to learn.

If I accept that technical difficulty and infeasibility is no defense, then I want that standard applied to lawyers as well.

Overly litigious firms causing rising legal costs across industries? I don't care if it's hard to solve, the onus for fixing it is on the firms, they figure it out or face penalties. Perhaps in the interests of helping the disenfranchised we could institute something like what real estate has, where banks are required to sell a quota of mortgages in certain areas regardless of the financial viability. Lawyers could be forced to seek out clients they would ordinarily never entertain due to the risk of loss. If would stink for them, but what do I care? That's their problem.

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#64
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention the pure absurdity of trying to censor numbers.

In this digital age, everything (text, images, audio) can be encoded using integers. Does that mean it's absurd to try to make anything secret?

You're strawmaning. I did not speak about making things secret. I also suggest you check this article out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Speech_Flag so you understand the difference between censorship and secrecy.

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#65

This is easy. You sue the companies with money. https://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/1986/06/22/

I found this Harvard study a while back about the volume of litigation in the us versus other countries. Their conclusions are interesting.

PDF link: http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/olin_center/papers/pdf/R...

"Coffee spills, Pokemon class actions, tobacco settlements. American courts have made a name for themselves as a wild lottery and a money machine for a lucky few lawyers. At least in part, however, the reputation is unfounded. American courts seem to handle routine contract and tort disputes as well as their peers in other wealthy democracies.

"More generally, Americans do not file an unusually high number of law suits. They do not employ large numbers of judges or lawyers. They do not pay more than people in comparable countries to enforce contracts. And they do not pay unusually high prices for insurance against routine torts.

"Instead, American courts have made the bad name for themselves by mishandling a few peculiar categories of law suits. In this article, we use securities class actions and mass torts to illustrate the phenomenon, but anyone who reads a newspaper could suggest alternatives.

"The implications for reform are straightforward: focus not on the litigation as a whole; focus on the specifically mishandled types of suits."

I don't know where I first heard this, but I have in my head the impression that America has the reputation of being overly litigious because mis-behaving companies think they benefit from creating that misconception.

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#66
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

\w\d{3}[\s\-]?\d{2}[\s\-]?\d{4}\w should not have many wrong results. You can also try to guess is something is a list of SSNs from the context.

I'd assume many systems would store SS numbers without spaces or dashes in the backend so that rendering is up to the client. Which means you're looking for 9 digit strings. For example, full zip codes (xxxxx-xxxx) are also 9 digit strings.

I've posted elsewhere in this thread about this. There's really no reason to expect SSNs as strings for internal use. 32bit integers readily represent the same, as the max SSN is just a 9-digit number. I've seen at least one client store SSNs as INTs in a database and handle left-padding to 9 characters and interposing hyphens in display code.

Any 9-digit integers are immediately suspect under this reasonable storage choice.

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#67
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously entertaining the idea that Github should pour resources into developing a SSN detection pipeline? Why don't they also flag repositories with lots of names, those are PII. Too many addresses? That's a red flag. Why would you even for a second entertain this nonsense? Non-technical people who think this: https://github.com/Hack-with-Github/Awesome-Hacking is a smoking gun to prove Github as a company…

Per EU's GDPR, and maybe the future California Consumer Privacy Act, yes : GitHub should do everything they can to preserve people's privacy. Including maybe flagging and reviewing projects which process PII. GitHub is popular enough that less technical people also browse it, in particular young people looking to learn.

> everything they can

Just the other day my mom texted my address to a friend that wanted to mail me something. I want to know why Verizon didn't stop that from happening!

Verizon should be censoring all addresses from text messages, but I suppose it could allow them after a manual review process.

HN is guilty here as well:

  1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500
Why isn't the above address automatically censored?

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#68
post #7

> The lawsuit said GitHub had an obligation under California law and industry standards to keep off or remove the Social Security numbers and personal information from its site. The plaintiffs believe that because Social Security numbers had a fixed format, GitHub should have been able to identify and remove this data > The lawsuit alleges that by allowing the hacker to store information on its servers, GitHub violat…

> As someone who thinks the world will be a far better place if we had decentralized dumb platforms Then you should be very much in favour of assigning expensive liability to companies running these centralized platforms. If it becomes extremely expensive or legally risky to maintain a big centralized database, that opens a window for free, open source federated protocols to fill that gap. Consider: You can sue Megau…

The problem is that all these big surveillance as a service companies are vaccines for the state. Centralized data silos are setting the precedent that there is indeed a magic button that politicians/lawlers can push to control "The Internet".

It seems impossible and foolish to sue a protocol, until the precedent is gradually set that "reasonable" services implement many forms of state and corporate censorship. Then when the next thing happens that they don't like, their question becomes why are "lawless" decentralized protocols allowed to exist.

And obviously a protocol itself still can't be legislated out of existence. But its use can certainly be filtered, criminalized, etc. Even its development can be hampered if its cast as a "circumvention device" against status-quo censorship.

I don't think we're terribly far from having to fight this battle regardless - when consumer net neutrality fails, incumbent ISPs will discover most of their market is content with a default whitelist to save a few dollars. But hastening its arrival is not good.

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#69
post #7

> The lawsuit said GitHub had an obligation under California law and industry standards to keep off or remove the Social Security numbers and personal information from its site. The plaintiffs believe that because Social Security numbers had a fixed format, GitHub should have been able to identify and remove this data > The lawsuit alleges that by allowing the hacker to store information on its servers, GitHub violat…

There’s a giant wave of political support for this. Right now people are talking on the tv about 8chan and mass shooters. GitHub is being sued for content. The end result will be a (horrifying) market solution m. Site owners will have no choice but to pay outside companies to analyze content for them and auto delete. This will probably end up throwing the baby out with the bath water.

> Site owners will have no choice but to pay outside companies to analyze content for them and auto delete.

What could go wrong with that process (!) apart from almost everything

Re: GitHub sued for aiding hacking in Capital One breach

#70

Honestly, it scares me that this was even filed. Even though we know how ridiculous it is to include Github in this suit, I'm afraid we're going to be left with some weird middle ground that shouldn't even exist to begin with made by people who have no idea how things work trying to fix something that isn't broken.

> "people who have no idea how things work trying to fix something that isn't broken"

They're not trying to fix anything. They're trying to get as much money as possible, and they don't care about the damage they will cause in doing so.

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