You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS • Hacker News Board

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#61

Post by _ph_ » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:22 PM UTC

alunchbox wrote: post #40

gchokov wrote: post #2

I am happy buying stuff from the iOS store. It's convenient, quick and easy. No objection as an end user.

Your views don't change even after learning that most of your purchases that are to support developers are being skimmed by 30% ? (similar situation to Steam but at least their development tools are nearly bug free, and really help development) The problem here is that they also charge 100 or $50 just to start developing on their platform...

There is no charge to start development for iOS. The tools are available for any Mac owner.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#62

Post by jperry » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #31

nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

Right, the author just forgot about every game console existing.

But it's not true.

There's absolutely no restriction on game development machines except that the provided tools (probably) only run on Windows.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#63

Post by PascLeRasc » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

I noticed that the author published this on a website that implements a paywall, doesn't allow much control over the look of their column, and tries to make you log into an official Medium account to read. I wonder why that is, if they're championing the open ecosystem so much?

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#64

Post by Wowfunhappy » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:23 PM UTC

jordanpg wrote: post #21

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great! Let the iOS App Store compete in the free market on its own merits. I suspect it will do quite well—it's installed on all phones by default, and consumers trust it (for good reason). The App Store should not be the only way to get software on an iPhone, sans literally hacking the device.

They are competing in the free market. Users are free to not use their software and there are many other choices. You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.

> You seem to be objecting to the manner in which they compete.

I absolutely am! There is such a thing as unfair competition. As I see it, Apple is using their existing dominance to create barriers to entry for new players.

I'm free to avoid Amazon too, but as increasing amounts of society move to Amazon as the de-facto web store for everything, how reasonable is it to fully boycott them? Sure it's possible, but it would be a substantial life commitment.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#65

Post by PakG1 » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

TheRealPomax wrote: post #56

vbezhenar wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to be forced to trust every company with my credit card information This problem is solved with Paypal.

And modern banks that offer their customers "one time use" credit card numbers that you load up with an exact amount, and expire after a few hours if not collected on by a third party.

Stripe gets no love? :)

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#66

Post by greedo » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #43

nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

> I don't want to be forced to trust every company with my credit card information This problem is solved with Paypal.

Considering PayPal's numerous issues, I don't think that using it as a credit card substitute for online purchases is that great of an idea.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#67

Post by TheRealPomax » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #5

> Here’s the thing: If you’re a developer for iOS or macOS and want to charge customers money, the Apple-provided payment tools, which demand a 30% cut, are the only ones you’re allowed to use. It’s not even a discussion. Why does macOS keep getting offhandedly roped into these discussions? Not only is the Mac App Store not a requirement, it's rarely used. Maybe Apple intends to change that some day, but that's specu…

Probably because part of the ios appeal is the insanely smooth interoperation between your mac laptop, your appple watch, and your iphone. If you already have a mac because, say, your work got you one (which in the tech industry is ludicrously common) then getting an iphone if you're shopping for a new device makes a whole lot of sense.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#68

Post by zentiggr » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #43

nerdjon wrote: post #9

>On no other platform would we accept a scenario where the owner of that platform dictated not only the tools developers can use, but restricted the ways they talk about their products and pricing. We would call it unfair, monopolistic, and overbearing. But on our smartphones, it’s just a fact of life. I am pretty sure game consoles have been doing this basically since their existence. None of them allow you to make…

> I don't want to be forced to trust every company with my credit card information This problem is solved with Paypal.

And now you have two problems.

But at least the worst is better than most everything else.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#69

Post by scarface74 » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

CaptainMarvel wrote: post #25

gchokov wrote: post #2

I am happy buying stuff from the iOS store. It's convenient, quick and easy. No objection as an end user.

I’m unhappy because Apple has prevented me from using my phone how I want to. I recognised Spotify’s published complaints against Apple 2-3 years before they spoke out. I vowed to never use or buy Apple Music, Apple Watch, HomePod, and even a new iPhone because Apple were degrading my experience with Spotify compared to their own services. They deliberately created an unfair playing field on their platform in order t…

Apple doesn’t take a cut of a Spotify subscription. Spotify hasn’t allowed in app subscriptions for years.

Can I sideload music and integrate it with my Spotify library like I can with Apple Music? Can an artist get included in the Spotify library without giving them a 30% cut?

Apple is introducing cellular streaming in WatchOS 5 and music intents with Siri in iOS 13.

This problem is the same. How can Spotify compete with Apple in a completely separate industry like Music when Apple takes a 15-30% cut? How can Netflix compete?

Netflix also stopped allowing in app subscriptions recently.

Re: You’re Paying into a Broken System Whenever You Buy Something on iOS

#70

Post by eeeeeeeeeeeee » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 3:24 PM UTC

yepthatsreality wrote: post #58

eeeeeeeeeeeee wrote: post #11

Disagree. Every system has problems. Look at what happened with Zoom — unrestricted access to your entire user account on MacOS, for them to do whatever they want. Normal people should not have to even think about a virus or malware scanner on their system. I like where Apple is going and I like the iOS model. Most of all, I know that people like my parents will be better protected from malware and spyware and crypto…

Except this ignores the fact that there has been spyware and malware on Apple's store. Which perhaps gets removed eventually, but what about services that sell your data to the highest bidder without Apple's knowledge? Apple's offered security is relative to their definition of security. All it takes is your parents to install a malicious app that passed the app review. Deferring to Apple as some sort of security bab…

Like I said, no system is perfect. But let’s be real — which OS model is likely to better secure them and limit the damage? It’s objectively clear it’s iOS. iCloud backups make recovering from the damage much easier too. Backing up MacOS or Windows is still not easy.

Even if they installed a malicious app on iOS, the damage is still limited because of the security model of iOS.

I definitely understand the concern of centralizing everything around one provider, but I’m just pointing out that these systems win because, on the whole, they are a better experience for users. It’s why Facebook wins, and it’s why closed systems continue to crush open ones.