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Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

bppe.ca.gov

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Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#61
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vetting process and requirements for compliance likely makes it harder for schools who have alternative methods of teaching to be able to experiment and find better solutions to the problem. This pushes innovation in this field out of your state, which you may be okay with as long as people aren't getting swindled. But there's always a cost to these things.

California is known for overbearing compliance, but it isn't known for stifling innovation because of it. Our State recognizes that innovation is its lifeblood. I'm not too worried about them stifling innovation. For one, it was stated elsewhere that they are working with Lambda school to get them certified, and for two, I think the fact that most of the self-driving car companies are working here now is a perfect ex…

I don't see how California's tech innovation is proof that regulation isn't stifling innovation in other, tangentially related at best, sectors. I would also argue CA regulations stifle a lot more industries than just education.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#62
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought lawyers are liable for bad advice?

Legal counsel is about risk mitigation: do we fire this person? The question isn’t whether it’s moral or ethical. It’s what the risk exposure? What are the likely outcomes? Do we have our bases covered? Fire them! (Or, we can’t, it overexposes us, create a new department, assign them and then dissolve the department some time later and declare them redundant).

I'm not sure what you mean by this. When counsel tell you something is legal, and it isn't, there's little subjectivity.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#63
post #60

These things happen when you're just getting starting its normal we live and learn. Just hoping they start a slightly more flexible cohort for people who are working and looking for the next promotion

What would we need to change about our part-time classes to make it accessible to you?

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#64
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't mind me asking, were you using a boutique lawyer or a big firm?

Big firm. We should have been using an education-specific boutique for this specific thing, but this started happened when we were tiny and still figuring a lot.

For what it’s worth, $75k and whatever time you spend on this doesn’t seem like a massive amount. I feel like you took a risk when you had many other things to do and the risk was calculated and overall worth it — even if you got unlucky.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#65

It’s true. Our counsel informed us that we didn’t need to register. Counsel was wrong. Now we have new counsel :) We’ve submitted all the paperwork and have worked closely with California. This all happened a long time ago. I’m not sure what the right level of regulation is (it’s hard taking care of 50 states at once - one state registration was 2,277 pages and weighed 25 pounds https://twitter.com/austen/status/1153…

25 lbs of paperwork to register an online school? Sounds less about protecting students and more towards protecting incumbents and cronies.

The real fun ones are where we have to submit the curriculum for approval every time we make a change (considering we make small tweaks to curriculum every day - they did not plan for that use case).

Good thing there are APIs for printing and mailing changes to a diff :)

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#66
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Big firm. We should have been using an education-specific boutique for this specific thing, but this started happened when we were tiny and still figuring a lot.

For what it’s worth, $75k and whatever time you spend on this doesn’t seem like a massive amount. I feel like you took a risk when you had many other things to do and the risk was calculated and overall worth it — even if you got unlucky.

It could be worse. I’ve never lost any sleep because of it. Regulators have the best of intentions in California so far as I can tell, so just a few hoops to jump through.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#67
post #25

It’s true. Our counsel informed us that we didn’t need to register. Counsel was wrong. Now we have new counsel :) We’ve submitted all the paperwork and have worked closely with California. This all happened a long time ago. I’m not sure what the right level of regulation is (it’s hard taking care of 50 states at once - one state registration was 2,277 pages and weighed 25 pounds https://twitter.com/austen/status/1153…

Legal advise can be tricky, specially when trying to do something new. I have seen a few situations where this scenario played out Out of curiosity, was the paperwork cumbersome, or did the old counsel just not know? note: I considered rewording the "not know" bit since regulations can be tricky, there can be other reasons why they might've felt that the need to register wasn't there. Most of which I feel, for counse…

>specially when trying to do something new

New is the easiest case.

If your "new thing" entrenches the status quo and generally benefits those on the top of society the law will be interpreted as in your favor as it can possibly be.

If your "new thing" threatens the status quo or makes the poor more able to annoy those on the top of society the legal system will go through whatever contortions it must to throw up roadblock after roadblock.

If your "new thing" is somewhere in between or if most people are indifferent but there's small vocal minorities who feel strongly for/against your thing that's where it gets interesting.

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#68

It’s true. Our counsel informed us that we didn’t need to register. Counsel was wrong. Now we have new counsel :) We’ve submitted all the paperwork and have worked closely with California. This all happened a long time ago. I’m not sure what the right level of regulation is (it’s hard taking care of 50 states at once - one state registration was 2,277 pages and weighed 25 pounds https://twitter.com/austen/status/1153…

Can you go after your old counsel using your new counsel for damages?

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#69
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not directing this at you, but to all - this is a concrete example of why you shouldn’t blindly trust legal (or medical, or spiritual) advice. Ask questions, make sure you understand, and think critically. No one is infallible.

Reminds me of this story: https://a16z.com/2014/02/06/why-i-did-not-go-to-jail/ TL;DR, A widely respected CFO makes a suggestion regarding stock and being competitive as far as employee compensation. CFO says that they have done the same thing at numerous companies. The CEO is not very knowledgeable and asks the general council (who unlike a lot of places at the time reports directly to the CEO, not the CFO) to weigh…

That's an amazing story. Did PWC's people go to jail as well?

Re: Lambda School fined $75k by CA for operating without state approval [pdf]

#70
post #5

Doesn't shock me one bit. I worked for General Assembly ~5 years ago, and they were really serious about getting and staying on top of all the state guidelines. I got the sense that we were the only school taking that seriously at the time. The only thing that shocks me is that we haven't seen such earlier. I don't have a strong opinion about if such things should be regulated or not, but I do know that there's a lot…

> I do know that there's a lot of people who have just slapped together programs to ride a money wave, and offer relatively little in exchange It's not clear if you're intending to criticize Lambda School in particular here, but given the context that's how it comes across. If that wasn't your intention, it might be worth clarifying your comment; otherwise it might be worth providing some supporting evidence. I'm not…

This definitely isn't a slap at Lambda School. From what I've heard they are fine, and their response on this thread shows they care and are working on things. At this point I'm far less familiar with the market than I was several years ago. I remember dozens of places popping up nearly overnight and hearing horror stories from students - Lambda wasn't one of those.
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