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Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

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61–70 of 75 posts

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#61
I propose a simple "smell test" for "new internet" projects. A project would need at least one of the following two (not necessarily both given the maturity lifecycle):

1. Would the core platform developers work on it for "free"? As in, develop it because they really genuinely believe in it, not because they're trying to get rich quick through some high-tech blockchain-based multi-level marketing scheme, and not because they've convinced themselves they believe in it in a cult-like way by listening to "lies told a thousand times".

2. Would any real non-technical users want to use it without any strings attached? As in, use it because it delivers some genuine benefit to them, without them having to pay for it in some insidious way, and not because they're being paid to use it.

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#62
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by this you mean tokens that were locked for 1 year under Reg D and then unlock monthly since the launch of the Stacks blockchain in Nov 2018, then yes there is a subset of tokens that are unlocked following the unlocking procedures that other holders also follow. Union Square Ventures, myself, and my co-founder are one of the largest holders of such tokens. We have restrictions from the SEC on selling these on th…

Happens all the time with IPOs so it's totes fine, right? Your greed is showing, Muneeb. Plenty of posters in this thread talk about "following you" since the beginning and having lovely things to say about your product. Truth is: There is nothing your product does that other decentralized services didn't already do, for free. Your ID service is a less-secure Sovrin and your storage is a gated IPFS. You just saw what…

Understand your skepticism.

"Happens all the time with IPOs" refers to restrictions on significant holders and company affiliates to sell. Which I believe is a good thing.

Blockstack pre-dates Ethereum and is the exact opposite of Ethereum in terms of tech design. This is a regulated token offering which is very different from what Ethereum did. Doing what Ethereum did i.e., "ICO", in my view, is a much easier but legally risky path.

Love what Sovrin is doing. Blockstack pre-dates Sovrin by a couple of years. We've worked on the Decentralized Identity Foundation (DIF) with them.

I don't understand your IPFS comment, can you please elaborate? Gaia provides blockchain-pointers to private data lockers, IPFS is p2p storage. You can actually plugin IPFS as a storage option with Gaia, driver here: https://github.com/blockstack/gaia/pull/129/files

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#63

Can you explain the business model behind the payouts you make as part of app mining, please? ( https://app.co/mining ) In simple terms; I'm trying to get my head around what Blockstack gets in return for paying developers to use Blockstack Auth ? Also, you may want to investigate the rounding of Dmail's figures shown on that URL ^^ At the time of writing the page shows a lifetime payout to Dmail of $19,999 yet last…

There is no business model behind App Mining payouts for Blockstack. It's a developer incentive program, meant to incentivize developers to build high-quality applications on the network, especially in the initial years.

You can argue that the developers make the Blockstack ecosystem more valuable by spending their time and effort to build apps for it in return for newly minted Stacks tokens. Kind of similar to how Bitcoin mining works where miners provide computing resources to the network and do some "work" and earn newly minted tokens.

Thanks for the Dmail feedback, we'll look into it!

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#64
post #61

I propose a simple "smell test" for "new internet" projects. A project would need at least one of the following two (not necessarily both given the maturity lifecycle): 1. Would the core platform developers work on it for "free"? As in, develop it because they really genuinely believe in it, not because they're trying to get rich quick through some high-tech blockchain-based multi-level marketing scheme, and not beca…

That's a good test.

I worked on this for free until we could raise venture capital to support the open-source development. Without venture capital, I'd probably be working on it in academia but I think that'd be less impactful given limited resources. Developers have been building apps on Blockstack since 2017, the App Mining program was introduced in late-2018. There is a genuine community of developers who'd work on this for free because they believe in the mission.

Users don't have any strings attached. There is a free username registration service for them (the default method) and the apps on https://app.co/blockstack provide real utlity while hiding blockchain-complexity. I don't think most users even realize that there is any blockchain involved.

Finally, no user is being paid to use any app. The App Mining program for developers is the only component in the ecosystem where any incentives/payments are involved. Apple had developer incentive programs for iOS for example. When launching a new platform you have the chicken & egg problem of users and apps. We're trying to get enough high-quality apps so users can get real utility. The App Mining program stops after the initial years.

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#65
post #61

I propose a simple "smell test" for "new internet" projects. A project would need at least one of the following two (not necessarily both given the maturity lifecycle): 1. Would the core platform developers work on it for "free"? As in, develop it because they really genuinely believe in it, not because they're trying to get rich quick through some high-tech blockchain-based multi-level marketing scheme, and not beca…

Core platform developer here (for 4+ years). Would absolutely work on this project in my spare time if I wasn't already employed at Blockstack PBC. You can also check our various projects' contributor graphs on Github (all under https://github.com/blockstack) if you want to gauge developer interest.

EDIT: providing more context below:

The reason Blockstack appeals to me is because I think it is one of the few projects with a reasonable, sustainable architecture for ensuring that users own all their data. In particular, Blockstack apps with the same performance characteristics as traditional Web applications _while also_ ensuring that users (1) don't have to run their own servers if they don't want to, and (2) don't have to keep their personal devices online 24/7. The storage layer, Gaia, achieves this by leveraging any/all existing storage media for hosting and serving the data, including commodity cloud storage and CDNs.

Because users provide the primary replicas of their data, they retain control and ownership of it even if the application goes away, or if they switch applications. Indexes and aggregations of user data -- such as the notions of a Twitter feed or a comment thread -- are treated as downstream, soft-state replicas derived from user data, and can be independently reconstructed by anyone. Blockstack apps nevertheless can easily create such indexes and aggregations with Radiks -- https://github.com/blockstack-radiks.

The blockchain component is buried deep in the stack, and is used today for user discovery: user A can discover user B's public key and URLs to their data. By running a Blockstack node, you learn every user's public keys and URLs. This enables Blockstack apps to encrypt data end-to-end so only its intended recipients can see it (Gaia and its underlying storage media only see ciphertext). Users don't directly interact with the blockchain; this is all handled through the user's Blockstack authenticator (https://github.com/blockstack/blockstack-browser) and through blockstack.js.

The system can handle a large number of users today. Most user registration is handled through a batching mechanism, whereby ~160 name/pubkey/URL triples are announced and replicated to the Blockstack peer network per blockchain transaction. At 8 transactions/block, this yields over 180,000 registrations/day.

The reason to introduce a token is to implement smart contracts, which in turn are meant to allow applications to implement small programs to manage a small amount of global state without needing a dedicated, trusted server. Not all applications will need smart contracts -- in fact, all Blockstack apps today that I know of (see https://app.co/blockstack) get along just fine without them. However, there are a few cases where having a small amount of global state is useful -- for example, if you were to build Reddit on Blockstack, you might have a smart contract that lists a directory of all subreddits and the list of admins who curate them.

A lot of thought, time, and energy has gone into the design and implementation of Blockstack's software stack prior to this sale, and the system has been running successfully in production for 3+ years.

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#66
post #5

Having a regulated token offering means hopefully that not only traders and hodlrs will buy the tokens but also real users, all the real users who use already the decentralized blockstack apps and all the users who will use them because they want to be in control of their data.

In what way are the apps decentralised?

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#67
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't get into Clarity in my summary above but really into the decidable smart contract language design. The reason I didn't mention Clarity is because most programs on Blockstack are not smart contracts. We think that smart contracts are only a subset of use-cases and should only be used when needed vs. making smart contracts the only way to program decentralized apps. For any readers that are intrigued by what i…

> We think that smart contracts are only a subset of use-cases and should only be used when needed vs. making smart contracts the only way to program decentralized apps Totally agree. Great job with blockstack, the APIs seem real easy to use - only thing I'm worried about is that the mobile SDK's are just JS wrappers so the JS bridge might be a speed bottleneck in mobile apps. Also, are there plans for a Flutter SDK…

I develop a proof of concept for flutter:https://github.com/friedger/flutterblockstackplugin

Again, this is just a wrapper for blockstack.js. I think the more apps it use the better the SDKs will become.

Most apps should work as PWAs anyway, I think.

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that different/worse than a startup? Early founders/employees get stock at a lower price, and then the price goes up if the company makes progress. There's only a return if the market values it.

So if an unregulated ICO does it, it's bad. But if a regulated ICO does it, that's cool, just regular startup scene behavior. Pump and dump those return multiples on unsophisticated public investors. The VC leeches will love this new short-cycle SEC-endorsed wealth channel.

Please don't post in the flamewar style to Hacker News. We're trying for something a bit better than internet-usual here, and I'm sure you can make your substantive points without it.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#69
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by this you mean tokens that were locked for 1 year under Reg D and then unlock monthly since the launch of the Stacks blockchain in Nov 2018, then yes there is a subset of tokens that are unlocked following the unlocking procedures that other holders also follow. Union Square Ventures, myself, and my co-founder are one of the largest holders of such tokens. We have restrictions from the SEC on selling these on th…

Happens all the time with IPOs so it's totes fine, right? Your greed is showing, Muneeb. Plenty of posters in this thread talk about "following you" since the beginning and having lovely things to say about your product. Truth is: There is nothing your product does that other decentralized services didn't already do, for free. Your ID service is a less-secure Sovrin and your storage is a gated IPFS. You just saw what…

Personal attacks are not ok on HN. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and do not post like this here, regardless of who you're attacking.

Re: Launch HN: Stacks (YC S14) – The first SEC-qualified crypto token offering

#70

They are selling 180K tokens. The question is, how many tokens have been pre-mined/created on a non-mined basis (if any). Who owns these pre-mined / created tokens. Half the time these blockchain scammers have the public only get access to 10% of the actual tokens, resulting in totally crazy valuations for the premined token's they are sitting on. Someone should be able to run the numbers. Ie, pre-mined tokens not of…

If only there were some sort of centralized disclosure document to address all of these questions...

Their Economics 2.0 paper showing how new tokens will be issued / mined / grow and the expected modeling isn't out yet - or do you have a pointer to it?
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