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Kod.app is open source

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Re: Kod.app is open source

#61
post #7

Sadly, it is a precious snowflake license (MIT + Custom term) with a very ambiguous custom term: "The Software and/or source code cannot be copied in whole and sold without meaningful modification for a profit." Great to see it semi-open source, and well within the rights of the author, though :-)

As per Kod 0.0.2's changelog, the special snowflake license was inspired by this blog post: http://blog.robrhyne.com/post/1043407467/selling-open-source

From that blog post:

> You might ask, what essential liberty am I excluding by adding the modification clause? Ironically, nothing.

A few sentences later he contradicts that statement by defining what he means by "nothing":

> If I charged $15, someone could ask $8 and undercut me with little effort on their part.

So he denies to others the freedom to distribute the software, which is an essential part of the Open Source term (as well as the Free Software term, which has essentially the same meaning).

Until now, this could have been a plain misunderstanding of the term Open Source. However, a few sentences later the author explains that he deliberately wants to misuse the term Open Source:

> Then I’d have to make the choice to either sell [the app on App store] or open-source the app. I wanted to do both.

So he wants to claim to do Open Source without actually doing Open Source. This is really unfair on all developers who are really doing Open Source.

Note that there is nothing wrong with that business model, but claiming the name "Open Source" for that kind of business is a clear misuse of the term. Open Source has another, well-defined meaning.

The author is perfectly right that with any Open Source license, even as restrictive as GPL or AGPL, you can't make a lot of money by selling copies. This is not an accident, but by design! That's why real Open Source developers sell services around their products, such as support, implementation of customer wishes, etc.

If he doesn't want to do business that way, it's fine! But then he shouldn't claim to do Open Source.

Re: Kod.app is open source

#62
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not open source? This is basically an open source licence with an added restriction on commercial use. To my mind, commercial use is completely orthogonal to whether a licence is open source or not. Note that "open source" != "under a OSI or FSF approved licence" and that at no time that I've seen does the developer claim it's "Free Software" (which it certainly isn't, although it does dynamically link a…

> This is basically an open source licence with an added restriction on commercial use. Adding that kind of restriction will make any license a non-OpenSource license. This is not orthogonal but an important aspect. Maybe a failing analogy helps here. From a linguistic point of view, the above is like saying: "Belarus is a democracy, with an added restriction regarding elections." > Note that "open source" != "under…

This statement is plain wrong. OSI defined the term Open Source very precisely, so using it to describe non-compliant licenses is a clear misuse of that term.

They may have given a definition but that does not give them a monopoly over usage of the term. Language does not have a One Definition Rule! For example, my dictionary states:

    open-source: Computing denoting software for which the
    original source code is made freely available and may be
    redistributed with or without modification.
Under that definition the licence is most certainly open source. Indeed, this definition is more in line with what many people think when they hear "open source".

I understand there are political reasons to have open source exactly equivalent with the OSI definition. However, this does not seem to have happened.

Re: Kod.app is open source

#63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is basically an open source licence with an added restriction on commercial use. Adding that kind of restriction will make any license a non-OpenSource license. This is not orthogonal but an important aspect. Maybe a failing analogy helps here. From a linguistic point of view, the above is like saying: "Belarus is a democracy, with an added restriction regarding elections." > Note that "open source" != "under…

This statement is plain wrong. OSI defined the term Open Source very precisely, so using it to describe non-compliant licenses is a clear misuse of that term. They may have given a definition but that does not give them a monopoly over usage of the term. Language does not have a One Definition Rule! For example, my dictionary states: open-source: Computing denoting software for which the original source code is made…

Language does not have a One Definition Rule!

This is only true for day-to-day words. However, legal words and technical terms need strict, stable definitions that are equally understood at least by all experts in that field. Otherwise, serious communication would become next to impossible, let alone serious discussions.

> For example, my dictionary states:

Dictionaries don't provide exact definitions. However, your quoted description seems to be the best you can get out of three lines. If you care to read 4-6 lines, you'll get the quite accurate FSF definition. If you care to read even 10+ lines, you'll get the detailed OSI definition.

> Indeed, this definition is more in line with what many people think when they hear "open source".

That's an important issue. Neither the term Free Software nor the term Open Source are completely self-explanatory. So people will inevitably have misconceptions about those if they've neither read a proper definition, nor had someone explaining it well enough to them.

The concrete issue with the term "Free Software" is that people might think: Oh, this software is free (no cost), so it must be Free Software. Eric S. Raymond and others tried to solve that problem by inventing a new synonym, "Open Source".

However, the term "Open Source" has issues as well, because people might think: Oh, the source code lies open in front of me, so it must be Open Source.

Note that this is a general problem. Hardly any technical term is totally self-evident to ordinary people. Just because a technical term is not self-explanatory doesn't mean you can simply ignore its exact definition.

Re: Kod.app is open source

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Granted it's a one of the most used software on my laptop, it's definitely not at the "never once not met my expectations" level. I don't think I have super high expectations either... I want soft-wrap to happen properly. I could go on with list of needs but it's pointless. I've given up hope that there will be ever an update and learnt to live with v1.x. However, that's just settling. As soon as I find something bet…

Unfortunately, MacRabbit won't be updating Espresso until the first half of 2011 (probably 4-5 months). See: http://twitter.com/#!/espressoapp/status/18041354806370304

Yuck! I really like Espresso but the lack of momentum and Sugars forced me to TM.

If Panic could create a TM to Coda migration path for those of us not interested in Emacs or Vim, they could snag a ton of customers. A way to port bundles and to turn off the dreamweaveresque portions of the app and they'll have my money. They actually ship software or at least keep people in the loop.

Re: Kod.app is open source

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as a trivial OS upgrade, and so long as 10.5 is supported and runs the stuff I need to run, I don't have a compelling reason to go to the trouble of upgrading.

You'll have to excuse me, but you're wrong. I mean, sure, it is an OS upgrade. But there's no real "trouble" (it takes about 20 minutes and a few clicks) and there's definitely compelling reasons to upgrade (including running 10.6 specific software). One pressing reason to upgrade: 64bit. Another one: cocoa finder. Also, faster and smaller. Seriously, I know people who have a reason not to upgrade. You don't seem to…

OK, tell you what: you come over to my place, run the upgrade, then fix all my dev stuff (combination of macports and non-macports) that'll break. Seriously, I've done this before and I know what's gonna be involved. But if you want to sit back and tell me how little "trouble" I'll have, you can do it for me.

Re: Kod.app is open source

#66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement is plain wrong. OSI defined the term Open Source very precisely, so using it to describe non-compliant licenses is a clear misuse of that term. They may have given a definition but that does not give them a monopoly over usage of the term. Language does not have a One Definition Rule! For example, my dictionary states: open-source: Computing denoting software for which the original source code is made…

Language does not have a One Definition Rule! This is only true for day-to-day words. However, legal words and technical terms need strict, stable definitions that are equally understood at least by all experts in that field. Otherwise, serious communication would become next to impossible, let alone serious discussions. > For example, my dictionary states: Dictionaries don't provide exact definitions. However, your…

I think the point he was trying to make is that he rejects your definition of the term. As do I; notwithstanding what some foundation or some famous hacker thinks, you need a fairly broad consensus to really define a term.

I don't think that your definition of "open source" (or even "Open Source") meets that test. I think most people probably still think of it meaning that all of the source code is available to you to read/modify/compile.

What set of legal restrictions govern that is another can of worms. The software might be illegal, patented, or otherwise restricted, but those issues are independent of whether the source code is available or not.

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