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Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

arstechnica.com

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Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#61

Post by [deleted] »

wlesieutre wrote: post #25
jakeogh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the spec allows an under-gauged cable to be plugged into a power outlet, and then relies on software (instead of a fuse) to not start a fire. I'm looking for a word... worse than awful...

You can plug a 5 amp rated extension cord into a residential plug on a 15A breaker and the breaker won’t protect you from overloading the cable with 15A. So yes, those sorts of light duty cables have their own fuse to prevent this. But I really would not trust all the no-name vendors flooding the market with shitty USB cables to include correct safety measures in all of their cables, so requiring cables to specifical…

[deleted]

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#62

Post by w0mbat »

I think the Pi team unintentionally became dependant on the time window they normally spent using test boards based on pre-release versions of the Broadcom sytem-on-a-chip. When the Broadcom chip went final really early they ended up shipping a half-baked version of the board along with it.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#63

Post by jakobegger »

CriticalCathed wrote: post #39
groovybits wrote: post #33

From a Pi consumer perspective, this is not that big of a deal. However, it damages the purpose (in name) of USB C. Isn't C supposed to be the 'all purpose' spec? If we have popular manufacturers failing to follow the spec, we end up with cables marked as 'compatible with Raspberry Pi' or 'compatible with Nintendo Switch'. To the average consumer (and even most techies), USB C was supposed to be the 'one size fits al…

USB C has confused me for the same reason. I read often about how there is no expectation that two USB-C cables/ports will work together. Why design them to fit together if they won't always work right?

Because it's useful to have a bunch of multi-purpose ports on a computer. You can attach a mouse, a keyboard, a printer, a hard drive, a screen, a dock, a charger, or whatever you want, all to the same port.

In my experience, finding the right cable has never been an issue. All the USB-C devices I've bought came with a suitable cable in the box.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#64

Post by johnhenry »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #57
thijsvandien wrote: post #3

Reminder to self: being an early adopter sucks virtually always. Edit: Sure, the issue is rather easy to circumvent, but anyone would have preferred not to have it. At the very least, it affects the resale value. My point is that whenever the answer to the question 'do I need it absolutely right away?' is no, it's better to wait a bit, no matter how much you intend to buy it at some point.

There is an old joke about the American West which goes, "Q: How do you know which people were pioneers? A: They are the ones with arrows in their back." USB-C is a phenomenally complex system from an engineering perspective, serving at least three masters (compatibility, power delivery, and enhanced performance). As these systems go through the standards process you have vendors designing silicon in anticipation and…

Wouldn't true pioneers have arrows in their front?

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#65

Post by echeese »

soared wrote: post #51

Interesting that two major-ish companies sell products that are out of spec (rpi and Nintendo). Is there any insight on why these decisions were made? Business and engineering opinions would be equally interesting.

Probably a mix of complicated standards, NIH, lack of standards compliance testing, and "works on my machine"

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#66

Post by SanchoPanda »

johnhenry wrote: post #64
ChuckMcM wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an old joke about the American West which goes, "Q: How do you know which people were pioneers? A: They are the ones with arrows in their back." USB-C is a phenomenally complex system from an engineering perspective, serving at least three masters (compatibility, power delivery, and enhanced performance). As these systems go through the standards process you have vendors designing silicon in anticipation and…

Wouldn't true pioneers have arrows in their front?

The arrows are a metaphor for "friendly fire" from former compatriots they have angered, not the enemy forces.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#67

Post by dsfyu404ed »

hanniabu wrote: post #50
groovybits wrote: post #33

From a Pi consumer perspective, this is not that big of a deal. However, it damages the purpose (in name) of USB C. Isn't C supposed to be the 'all purpose' spec? If we have popular manufacturers failing to follow the spec, we end up with cables marked as 'compatible with Raspberry Pi' or 'compatible with Nintendo Switch'. To the average consumer (and even most techies), USB C was supposed to be the 'one size fits al…

Would be nice if they at least had a code on them to know what the compatibility is, such AV means the port is audio and video compatible, AVP would mean the former plus you can use it to charge or power a device. The same codes could be used on the cables as well.

And then you'd get and arms race that leads to "USB C AVPDEFWXYZLGBTQ" cables and ports that are compatible with every possible use and eventually everyone would just use those thus fulfilling the goal that USB C had in the first place.

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#68

Post by rolltiide »

kylec wrote: post #58
rolltiide wrote: post #27

Great maybe theyll deliver the 8gb model while theyre at it

Quadrupling the memory over the previous version wasn't enough for you?

no it wasn't

there are references to an 8gb model already so no need to act surprised when they do launch it

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#69

Post by umvi »

oftenwrong wrote: post #38
groovybits wrote: post #33

From a Pi consumer perspective, this is not that big of a deal. However, it damages the purpose (in name) of USB C. Isn't C supposed to be the 'all purpose' spec? If we have popular manufacturers failing to follow the spec, we end up with cables marked as 'compatible with Raspberry Pi' or 'compatible with Nintendo Switch'. To the average consumer (and even most techies), USB C was supposed to be the 'one size fits al…

USB Type-C is an example of the second-system effect: http://catb.org/jargon/html/S/second-system-effect.html

So basically Type-C is like the F-35 of the USB world?

Re: Raspberry Pi admits to faulty USB-C design on the Pi 4

#70

Post by komali2 »

hanniabu wrote: post #50
groovybits wrote: post #33

From a Pi consumer perspective, this is not that big of a deal. However, it damages the purpose (in name) of USB C. Isn't C supposed to be the 'all purpose' spec? If we have popular manufacturers failing to follow the spec, we end up with cables marked as 'compatible with Raspberry Pi' or 'compatible with Nintendo Switch'. To the average consumer (and even most techies), USB C was supposed to be the 'one size fits al…

Would be nice if they at least had a code on them to know what the compatibility is, such AV means the port is audio and video compatible, AVP would mean the former plus you can use it to charge or power a device. The same codes could be used on the cables as well.

I don't think that solution works, because I have one converter that is audio, visual, power capable for my Nintendo Switch, but incompatible with my Surface Go, and another that is vis versa.
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