The idea behind svelte is neat, i wonder though what the impact of its approach will be on a developers ability to understand what is happening under the hood. In my experience opaque abstraction layers can really hamper your ability to properly understand what is going on. Traditionally the JS ecosystem has been a frontrunner in this area (e.g. sourcemaps). But I have had terrible experiences in the Java ecosystem, with all its aspect weaving and annotation magic.
Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
61–70 of 210 posts
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#62I like playing with different web frameworks, but the article had a bad hype:information ratio, so I googled the Svelte homepage, which I think is really well presented: https://svelte.dev/
Code examples on the Svelte website look jacked... all I see is an alert icon + "loading svelte compiler"
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
You don't have to, you can create a simple 1 line component to turn it into a declarative style. It's the benefit of having a full language instead of a template DSL for rendering. Declarative syntax is easy inside of an imperative flow, doing the opposite tends to lead to problems though.
You don't need a one line component, you can just declare an extra variable before your main JSX. A redundant extra component is bad for performance.
I know. That's what the poster didn't like so I suggested an alternative.
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
We should probably all just give up, eh?
We should probably settle . Other platforms afford a new UI framework maybe once a decade. The Web Frontend, already running on top of an apparently inadequate framework called "HTML5", somehow needs to be reinvented every year and it's a huge cost factor.
You don't have to use any of it. This website you're reading is just HTML from a server.
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#65I have a table of 100 rows x 10 columns mostly of numbers which change 10 times a second (think trading). The source data sits in an array of objects. On each update, I need to update the table cells with the latest values from the source array. The content of each cell can change, possibly it's css class too (from red it become blue for example). I'm using Vue/Bootstrap-Vue table at the moment, but it's quite slow.…
No framework can fully eliminate the underlying performance sinkhole that is the DOM. If you have to mutate, you will pay the price, period. The smartest framework can only help you eliminate redundant mutations.
By the sounds of it the DOM itself shouldn't be changing though, just the text in text nodes and style attributes. It should be fast.
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#66There was a really interesting discussion recently in r/Clojure about Svelte, and how its ideas relate to and can be translated to Clojurescript.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Clojure/comments/bqh0z4/virtual_dom...
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
We should probably all just give up, eh?
We should probably settle . Other platforms afford a new UI framework maybe once a decade. The Web Frontend, already running on top of an apparently inadequate framework called "HTML5", somehow needs to be reinvented every year and it's a huge cost factor.
No it's not, no one is rewritting their front ends every year to change frameworks. React was released 6 years ago, Angular fully released about 3 years ago. Just because some person decided to build something that solved their problem and may help others doesn't mean you need to adopt it and change everything. This argument that everyone needs to slow down because some people don't like hearing about change is ridiculous.
No other platform is as widespread and accessible as the web. There's more developers able to target sites that fit a massive range of uses, more than any other platform ever. So ofcourse there are going to be different needs for different use cases.
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#68The idea behind svelte is neat, i wonder though what the impact of its approach will be on a developers ability to understand what is happening under the hood. In my experience opaque abstraction layers can really hamper your ability to properly understand what is going on. Traditionally the JS ecosystem has been a frontrunner in this area (e.g. sourcemaps). But I have had terrible experiences in the Java ecosystem,…
I think svelte compiling to native javascript is lightyears more understandable than whatever the hell react is doing
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
We should probably settle . Other platforms afford a new UI framework maybe once a decade. The Web Frontend, already running on top of an apparently inadequate framework called "HTML5", somehow needs to be reinvented every year and it's a huge cost factor.
and this is exactly why I still drive a Ford Model-T.
comes in black, why would any one need another color. Glad we all settled on black being the only color for cars.
Re: Svelte is the most beautiful web framework I've seen
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
No framework can fully eliminate the underlying performance sinkhole that is the DOM. If you have to mutate, you will pay the price, period. The smartest framework can only help you eliminate redundant mutations.
By the sounds of it the DOM itself shouldn't be changing though, just the text in text nodes and style attributes. It should be fast.
text nodes and style attributes are part of "the DOM itself"