Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

bottle.bitdb.network

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 149 posts

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#61

Post by Dense_Body »

shilch wrote: post #57
phaser wrote: post #49

Please note this is hosted on the BitcoinSV (BSV) network, which is not the same as the Bitcoin network that we all know as BTC. BitcoinSV has much bigger blocks than Bitcoin, which is probably why this idea is possible. While the same idea could be applied for the original Bitcoin network, that is far more popular, it would be highly impractical as blocks are smaller and transaction costs are higher. I don't want to…

I guess the word "Bitcoin" used here refers to the protocol that the browser builds on, and not the chain commonly known as Bitcoin which has BTC as base asset. Bottle is not limited to BSV but could as well be run on other chains implementing the Bitcoin core protocol such as BTC, BCH, LTC and Doge.

You are correct but it actually could not be run on BTC or BCH because of changes that were made to them that make them incompatible with the design laid out in the protocol whitepaper. It also would be prohibitively expensive to do so due to the block size limitations they have in place.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#62

Post by onesatoshi »

arisAlexis wrote: post #39

people need to pay attention to a detail. BitcoinSV is not Bitcoin as people know it and it is misleading. This is a super cool project but being clear should be a priority in something that has the theme of trust and decentralisation

Of course BitcoinSV is Bitcoin. It's just not how you see Bitcoin.

Some see Bitcoin exactly as shown here. A new way of thinking about our internet. One where money is embedded in the protocol.

Don't get misguided thinking that the more people validate your transactions, the more secure the network is. Decentralisation is not a matter of how many validator nodes the network has. Decentralisation truly exists where/when no single entity can control the protocol, including developers! Attacking Bitcoin is an economically unwise move, as long as miners are getting more rewards in mining than they would in attacking.

This is where projects like Bottle really showcase the true destiny of Bitcoin. It's almost like the internet that ARPANET would like to have built :D

This might take years (10-20 ? who knows) to fully catch on, and other Bitcoins will exist in the meantime of course. But if you think about it, eventually they will just be rendered useless, as any good first prototype of a new technology is. Very important, uncharted grounds, but once matured, the prototypes are just that. Museum pieces.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#63

Post by shilch »

segfaultbuserr wrote: post #55
Solvitieg wrote: post #20

If we are posting data to the Bitcoin blockchain, does this data live alongside transaction data? And if so, are there fees to host this data (as we need to pay miners to include data in a block)?

> does this data live alongside transaction data? Yes. A Bitcoin "transaction" is actually a short Forth-like program running on a stack-based, non-Turing complete virtual machine. When Bitcoin has been sent to an address, the output script of a transaction is something like this: let HASH = "xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx"; if (check(HASH, pubkey, signature) == True) return 1; return 0; And recall a Bitcoin address is a RIP…

Good summary.

> Bitcoin developers later introduced opcode "OP_RETURN", which is seen as a standard and less-evil way to post data.

This is not true and an error in the Mastering Bitcoin book. OP_RETURN was introduced by Satoshi in the very first version of bitcoin.

> Typically, nobody can afford to store more than a few hundred bytes.

This depends on the artificial constraints put on the network. Bottle operates on top of BSV which comes without a cap on supply and offers cheaper fees when compared to BTC.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#64

Post by nyolfen »

truantbuick wrote: post #58
phaser wrote: post #49

Please note this is hosted on the BitcoinSV (BSV) network, which is not the same as the Bitcoin network that we all know as BTC. BitcoinSV has much bigger blocks than Bitcoin, which is probably why this idea is possible. While the same idea could be applied for the original Bitcoin network, that is far more popular, it would be highly impractical as blocks are smaller and transaction costs are higher. I don't want to…

This post is running around BSV-associated social media outlets. [1] [2] BSV is a project almost entirely propped up by a billionaire gambling tycoon named Calvin Ayre who is promoting a known con-artist named Craig Wright [3] as the inventor of Bitcoin. They promote BitcoinSV, which came into existence last November as the "One True Bitcoin". They are invested in massive astro-turfing for publicity and to lend thems…

the twitter you link is the developer

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#65

Post by shilch »

thekyle wrote: post #34

It's a neat idea. Although, I'm skeptical of its practicality for hosting any serious amount of data. If everything is hosted on the Bitcoin blockchain then every node in the Bitcoin network will need to keep a copy of every file uploaded. I would prefer the DHT model used by IPFS and DAT where each node only hosts part of the network.

It's all about the incentives. What is the incentive in IPFS to keep data? If offering it to clients earns you money, what is the incentive to distribute it to competing peers? The blockchain is the solution: A miner must distribute the data in order to claim the block reward (subsidy + fees). Nodes can prune/drop any data they don't care about. You'll end up with specialised and competing nodes where each node only stores a subset of the data - some data might even be completely deleted or only available in archives if it has too little value.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#66

Post by thekyle »

marknadal wrote: post #59
thekyle wrote: post #34

It's a neat idea. Although, I'm skeptical of its practicality for hosting any serious amount of data. If everything is hosted on the Bitcoin blockchain then every node in the Bitcoin network will need to keep a copy of every file uploaded. I would prefer the DHT model used by IPFS and DAT where each node only hosts part of the network.

Do you mean IPFS & DAT? There is also Webtorrent, GUN, SSB, etc.

Yeah, I made a typo. Fixed now.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#67

Post by nivexous »

phaser wrote: post #49

Please note this is hosted on the BitcoinSV (BSV) network, which is not the same as the Bitcoin network that we all know as BTC. BitcoinSV has much bigger blocks than Bitcoin, which is probably why this idea is possible. While the same idea could be applied for the original Bitcoin network, that is far more popular, it would be highly impractical as blocks are smaller and transaction costs are higher. I don't want to…

I'm reminded of a question Peter Thiel asks founders: What is one thing you believe that nearly everybody else disagrees with you on? Having a good answer means you might be onto something big. Everyone building on BSV has a pretty good answer right now.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#68

Post by shilch »

Dense_Body wrote: post #61
shilch wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the word "Bitcoin" used here refers to the protocol that the browser builds on, and not the chain commonly known as Bitcoin which has BTC as base asset. Bottle is not limited to BSV but could as well be run on other chains implementing the Bitcoin core protocol such as BTC, BCH, LTC and Doge.

You are correct but it actually could not be run on BTC or BCH because of changes that were made to them that make them incompatible with the design laid out in the protocol whitepaper. It also would be prohibitively expensive to do so due to the block size limitations they have in place.

In theory it could work on BTC or BCH. Bottle relies on large OP_RETURN which is a miner-adjustable limit, not consensus. But in practice you (1) would need to find a miner to do this. (2) could only put in 1MB of data on BTC. (3) would have to pay a lot of satoshis (as you pointed out).

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#69

Post by apo »

Highly misleading. This runs on an alternative network called Bitcoin SV. It's most definitely not Bitcoin, but a fork of a fork of a fork.

Amusing really, because the "SV" stands for Satoshi's vision. The founder, Craig Wright has been bamboozling people for a long time with his nonsense.

It's so long ago that most have forgotten, but the real Satoshi weighed in on a pretty heated argument about whether the Bitcoin block chain should be used to store DNS records. Satoshi was against it due to scaling concerns.

The project went on to create its own network and blockchain called Namecoin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1790.msg28917#msg289...

I would take this project in the same spirit. Someone created a block chain and network for mass data storage. At least that's the goal. The result is what you see, but it's not Bitcoin.

Re: Bottle: A Bitcoin SV Browser

#70

Post by dang »

Commenters have objected that this is BitcoinSV rather than Bitcoin, so I put SV in the title above. I don't actually know what that means, so let me know if I got something wrong.
Post reply on HN