I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#61

Post by pteraspidomorph » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

braythwayt wrote: post #58

pteraspidomorph wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For js and js-adjacent technologies or libraries, there sometimes aren't any references to speak of, unfortunately. You're supposed to divine the information you need from task-oriented texts and code snippets.

Look, Sturgeon's Revelation is that "90% of everything s CRUD." That's true of almost every technology I've encountered in 45 years of programming. It's especially true when you lower the bar to entry. There's lots of CRUD because anybody can make something. It also means there are lots of things. If you want well-documented stuff, vote for it by not using things that are poorly documented. Or figure it out and write…

If it's my decision to make, then yes, I'll do one of those things.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#62

Post by fencepost » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

I know folks who've gotten pushback from clients of "I'm not paying you to just Google things, fix my problem!"

My recommended response is "Nope, you're paying me to understand what's happening, look for possibly relevant information about why, understand what results are and are not relevant, and apply what I've looked up."

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#63

Post by braythwayt » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

pteraspidomorph wrote: post #61

braythwayt wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, Sturgeon's Revelation is that "90% of everything s CRUD." That's true of almost every technology I've encountered in 45 years of programming. It's especially true when you lower the bar to entry. There's lots of CRUD because anybody can make something. It also means there are lots of things. If you want well-documented stuff, vote for it by not using things that are poorly documented. Or figure it out and write…

If it's my decision to make, then yes, I'll do one of those things.

Of course you will, as do I. But it's no good moaning about the fact that they let just about anybody buy a computer and write software.

That's literally why we're all here, because they let anybody buy a computer and write software, even people who can't be bothered to write documentation, or people who are too busy optimizing advertising click-through to give us good search results from a web browser.

My thesis is that this is not limited to JS and WebDev, it's everything! It's just very visible with JS and WebDev.

If there's anything in particular to focus on, I'd focus on package management. You pick something that seems well-documented, and next thing you know you have dozens or hundreds of other things baked into your app.

If you go off the beaten path and need to break the abstraction of the thing you chose, you find yourself wrestling with the things that author chose.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#64

Post by zrobotics » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:40 PM UTC

klez wrote: post #12

kawsper wrote: post #9

Using search engines sometimes feel like a lost art if you spend any time in Facebook groups, where people will ask mundande, simple, and easily Googleable questions. Sometimes I wonder if people do it to fill some sort of social need, and don't particularly care for the answer.

In my experience, people don't even think that's an option. It's like you either know how to do things or you ask an actual person. To be fair, in some cases it's just laziness.

How is googling something not the lazy option though? Personally, I think it's far more work to ask someone and wait for the answer over immediately getting the answer from searching and finding a 4 year old forum post with the same question.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#65

Post by learc83 » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

hybridtupel wrote: post #55

I want to question this. Sure there are many things where a google search brings up a better solution than the own spontaneous one (for example path finding algorithms for games). But every problem beyond a trivial ‘getting started’ needs more thought than an algorithm one can copy and paste from google. Even if it’s only the glue code to bring all parts together or transferring the knowledge to the problem trying to…

Yeah for some reason software engineers love self depreciation. It's like we've internalized management's desire to make us low status cogs

Doctors google things, captial E Engineers google things, chefs google things, everyone googles things. Yet you don't hear them talking like this to the extent we do.

Like you said it's knowing what to type into Google, knowing how to filter the results, and knowing how to apply the information you that's the hard part.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#66

Post by badatshipping » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

This just shows how shallow web programming is in intellectual content. If your expertise consists of stuff that can be looked up on the fly, all you need to join the field is a high enough IQ to comprehend those ideas at all. There’s no need for deep thinking or mastery.

In what other technical field can you simply google everything? And is that because other fields are merely more obscure, or because they’re actually harder? Could one be a mathematician or physicist by googling things?

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#67

Post by pi-victor » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:46 PM UTC

hybridtupel wrote: post #55

I want to question this. Sure there are many things where a google search brings up a better solution than the own spontaneous one (for example path finding algorithms for games). But every problem beyond a trivial ‘getting started’ needs more thought than an algorithm one can copy and paste from google. Even if it’s only the glue code to bring all parts together or transferring the knowledge to the problem trying to…

^ this. so very much this.

for getting started guides, it's great, although even there i'd exercise a lot of caution. there's a lot of info from people who are not experience that people just replicate in their code/setup which isn't really a good idea.

for complex issues you never drown in information. and usually when you find something it probably doesn't apply to your setup. that doesn't mean you can't, at least, get some idea or a pointer to the right solution.

however, just googling or stackoverflowing, i'd be wary of implementing any solution without any thought just because someone else solved it before me.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#68

Post by klez » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

zrobotics wrote: post #64

klez wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, people don't even think that's an option. It's like you either know how to do things or you ask an actual person. To be fair, in some cases it's just laziness.

How is googling something not the lazy option though? Personally, I think it's far more work to ask someone and wait for the answer over immediately getting the answer from searching and finding a 4 year old forum post with the same question.

Tell that to my dad. He just picks up the phone and asks me why the printer is not working. On an OS I don't even know how to use, for that matter.

Also remember, I can find a vastly greater breath of information cause I can search in English. He can't. Now that I think of it, this may even be a counterpoint to "just Google it".

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#69

Post by Edmond » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

badatshipping wrote: post #66

This just shows how shallow web programming is in intellectual content. If your expertise consists of stuff that can be looked up on the fly, all you need to join the field is a high enough IQ to comprehend those ideas at all. There’s no need for deep thinking or mastery. In what other technical field can you simply google everything? And is that because other fields are merely more obscure, or because they’re actual…

Maybe referring to Physicists and Mathematicians googling is a bit glib but almost certainly they do a whole lot of "Googling" by way of being familiar with what others have done...it is the only way to be effective.

Knowing how to quickly find what you need is not in conflict with mastery...besides, we are talking about web apps here, most dev teams wont have much patient with a developer spending a ton of time reinventing wheels when there are ready-made solutions.

Re: I’m not really a good web developer, I'm just good at Googling things

#70

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sun, Jun 23, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

travisoneill1 wrote: post #18

Google is not a search engine. It is a memory upgrade, and anybody who tries to write software with a standard human memory is obsolete.

Many times I've asked google a specific question and only got results in the form of "Top 10 vaguely related unhelpful bullshit" clickbait. So yeah, actually, it is a lot like a really big version of my own nigh-useless human memory.