Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Report on forced organ harvesting in China

chinatribunal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 199 posts

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#61

Post by sdwa »

LocalH wrote: post #53
monkeyodeath wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that it makes a moral difference, but the victims aren't all hardened criminals. They are political dissidents, people who follow the wrong religion, and racial minorities. Most of the greatest mass atrocities in world history have been framed as a "tradeoff". Destroying some lives to save others isn't a functioning society, it's a living nightmare.

Honestly, if we were even going to begin to entertain any notions even slightly related to this, I'd want to suggest that if we insist on having the death penalty as a punishment, then those who are put to death should, if suitable, become automatic organ donors.

Nah that's totally ridiculous. Death is as serious a punishment as possible and can never be appealed once delivered, there should never be any incentives to deliver the death sentence besides seeing that justice is done.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#62

Post by sonnyblarney »

AsyncAwait wrote: post #43
jtdev wrote: post #12

A hard line stance on China’s human rights abuses, currency and trade manipulation, and intellectual property theft will be a top requirement for my support of 2020 US presidential candidates.

While I'd imagine you'd ignore U.S. abuses and provocations, (Iran?), I imagine? Is China worse than Saudi Arabia for example? Because I can't imagine U.S. speaking strongly against KSA, can you? The U.S. doesn't really care about human rights, or its own abuse of them, (was any top official prosecuted for Iraq?), so you'd be voting for posturing.

"U.S. abuses and provocations, (Iran?)," - this is a two sided coin.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#63

Post by smoyer »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #13

> While extracting the liver and kidneys from an executed victim who had been shot in the head and dumped by the side of a road, Tohti made a horrifying discovery. > "I started cutting down the middle and then he started struggling and I knew then that he was still alive, but he was too weak to resist me, " Tohti told The Telegraph. What the actual fuck.

Sometimes the only correct response is to cry ... but when you stop, make what you do count. You may not have the power to change the original situation but you can always make someone's day at least a little bit better.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#64

Post by latchkey »

jtdev wrote: post #12

A hard line stance on China’s human rights abuses, currency and trade manipulation, and intellectual property theft will be a top requirement for my support of 2020 US presidential candidates.

What was your requirements for the last few elections?

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#65

Post by StavrosK »

hydrox24 wrote: post #58
stavros wrote: post #21

Setting aside the persecutions, torture and possible genocide, which are undoubtedly heinous, something perplexes me: Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent? I am much more outraged by the fact that they're killing people for political reasons, the fact that they're harvesting their organs afterwards…

> Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent? I don't know if the following moral argument would pursuade most people, but I think it does work if you accept it is ethical for the state to execute people in the first place. It is wrong because the state now derives a material benefit from harvesting the p…

Hmm, no, that is convincing. Especially since the state now has an incentive to kill someone, I guess that would open up a whole can of worms.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#66

Post by StavrosK »

Nextgrid wrote: post #47
stavros wrote: post #21

Setting aside the persecutions, torture and possible genocide, which are undoubtedly heinous, something perplexes me: Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent? I am much more outraged by the fact that they're killing people for political reasons, the fact that they're harvesting their organs afterwards…

It corrupts the “justice” system even more by giving an incentive to sentence the suspect to death as opposed to just prison time. Of course, the death penalty itself is IMO immoral and I do not support it, but these are separate issues. The death penalty being there is one thing but at least nobody is benefiting from it being used. Harvesting organs from its victims changes that.

That's true, thanks for the counterpoint.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#67

Post by zachrose »

stavros wrote: post #21

Setting aside the persecutions, torture and possible genocide, which are undoubtedly heinous, something perplexes me: Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent? I am much more outraged by the fact that they're killing people for political reasons, the fact that they're harvesting their organs afterwards…

For starters, we don’t all consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners.

One thing the U.S. could do would be to end capital punishment in our own country. Bluntly, it would have all the moral leadership of sanctions and none of the economic impact.

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#68

Post by FartyMcFarter »

throwaway619 wrote: post #51

This is a controversial subject. It is important to get information from sources that have rigorous fact-checking and a reputation to defend.

How about the BBC, is that good enough?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-asia-china-45474277/uigh...

Re: Report on forced organ harvesting in China

#70

Post by IanCal »

therealjumbo wrote: post #44
stavros wrote: post #21

Setting aside the persecutions, torture and possible genocide, which are undoubtedly heinous, something perplexes me: Why do we consider it ethical for a state to execute prisoners, but consider harvesting their (now useless) organs to save more lives is ethically abhorrent? I am much more outraged by the fact that they're killing people for political reasons, the fact that they're harvesting their organs afterwards…

Because it creates a conflict of interest in the state. Similarly we don't let the state employ prisoners in any sort of for profit endeavor. Back in the day the British had prisoners move large rocks from one side of the prison yard to the other and then back again. That's brutish but there some logic behind it to keep the state from enjoying the activity.

> Similarly we don't let the state employ prisoners in any sort of for profit endeavor.

Doesn't the US have prisoners working for well under a dollar an hour in places?

Post reply on HN