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Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

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Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#61

Its quite telling that the promo video only shows people from countries with a substantial unbanked population. I do think that getting these people banked is safer and more secure for them (mitigates risk of being robbed) and enables a more vibrant economy (more lending because of deposits), but why should Facebook be the entity behind this? I am a cautiously optimistic person, but this is giving me the jeepers. I c…

> mitigates risk of being robbed

This is very unlikely, in places with social unrest people get forced to go to bank withdraw cash, or even as far as sale goods to make the cash for gangster, making it digital will make zero difference.

> more lending because of deposits

Lending by who? what deposits? lending most of all depends on risk which requires a stable society and some resemblance of an economic system and policy.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#62

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

It is founded by Facebook, but they will only have a %1 stake in it as far as I understand. Ultimately, it will be still controlled by existing governments, as they plan to back it by government issued currencies & the organisations that participate still have to respect government regulations. Besides, Visa & Mastercard already has this kind of dominance, except Libra makes it more transparent. So really, there's nothing to fear, at least if you already accept and abide by the existing financial system...

Btw, Libra is not a blockchain, but a distributed database. Think of it as Visa, Mastercard and friends coming together to create one database that they can update individually yet have the changes available to everyone while maintaining data integrity. Much better than the existing "black box" system, the new system is easier to audit.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#63

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

Don't worry so much. You can stop shouting. This will lead to nothing because no one will use it.

Every attempt Facebook has made at commerce has failed miserably. No one trusts Facebook enough to purchase on Facebook, let alone use a Facebook currency.

Facebook, Snapchat, Twitter, et al. have all tried over and over again to get people to transact on their platform. Shop on Facebook, Buy on Twitter, Snapcash have all failed. Shopping on Instagram is a failure in progress.

All these companies want to feel like they are more influential than they are. They are really good at getting people to waste their time. Money, not so much.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#67

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

>It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible.

How is this different than what we have today with banks and credit card companies? The government can already freeze your funds. And now there are examples of people being censored online by being dropped by PayPal, which sets a scary precedent no matter how terrible their beliefs are.

>Further, they have no mandate like the central bank does to increase employment. Their mandate is to make money for corporations. This will lead to global social unrest.

That made me chuckle. The Fed has shown no concern for those who save by keeping interest rates so dangerously low for so long. The Fed is also here to make money for huge banks and corporations by making credit so cheap. In the long run this may not be the best for employment. Even if it is, it won't be for wages and wealth disparity.

>This will put some third-world countries in complete control by Facebook. I mean, whoever runs the currency, is the country.

Not much different than the role USD and the Euro play in developing nations today.

>Finally, the regulations on crypto and blockchain are still new. This is in Facebook's advantage as they can start lobbying to have these laws in their favor. They can argue for less transparency, as they are a bank, and this fits with their new privacy marketing message.

And what laws does Facebook plan to propose that are worse than the regulation (or lack thereof) that exists for the financial industry today?

>On the other hand, under no circumstances will I accept a world where Facebook started the one world currency.

I agree. I hope it is not Facebook that wins this game. But your other comments are very reactionary.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#68
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A ban would legitimize its utility to people skeptical of central banking i.e. a tiny irrelevant niche. I don't think banning bitcoin is a good idea, but a ban would be highly effective because nobody cares enough to risk fines or jail time over something they have no use for anyway.

A government can ban BTC fiat exchanges within their country fairly effectively. A ban on transacting on the Bitcoin network would be extremely difficult to enforce - VPN to a different country and they've lost you. Cyberpunks could still cross borders to cash out, or just purchase digital goods/services.

> A ban on transacting on the Bitcoin network would be extremely difficult to enforce

1. I disagree. There are many effective methods a government could utilize to enforce a ban on transacting on the Bitcoin network. I could think of many technical examples, like the use of weaponized malware and 0-days to spy on the population and uncover users. Yes, some technical people could evade detection, but most people (including most programmers) would be caught up quickly due to opsec mistakes. There is also violence, which would be very effective unfortunately.

2. Even if they couldn't effectively ban transacting on the bitcoin network, the network itself is useless if the state makes it illegal for businesses to accept bitcoin.

3. Strong enforcement isn't necessary since the masses are already uninterested in blockchain tokens except as a vehicle for speculation. If the government made it illegal most people wouldn't think twice about it. Why bother?

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#69
post #37
post #34

Is Facebook establishing a new layer of network effects by implemention of this plan?

That's clearly the goal, after seeing the massive success of WePay in China.

People who are unfamiliar with WeChat Pay in China, are underestimating the potential for the FB cryptocurrency. The integration of social media and payments by WeChat strongly facilitated consumer adoption of their payment service. Everyone already had phones, everyone had WeChat installed on their phones. When payment services later became available through WeChat, there was a minuscule barrier for customer adoption. As people started using WeChat Pay they quickly found it more convenient for physical and online payments, money transfer between friends, and financial management. Next services like taxi hailing + payment became integrated into the WeChat app, increasing the convenience. The combination of convenience, preinstallation in the dominant social application, and low barrier to entry was a killer combination. In my estimation it turned out to be a stronger combination than Alipay, which started out as a payment service integrated with TaoBao (comparable to the Ebay / Paypal).

Since Facebook has a dominant social app and messaging app position worldwide, their payments service will have worldwide penetration from day one. Since Facebook can do software, the service interface will be more convenient and user friendly that existing services in the first world, and infinitely more so elsewhere. Money can be made here and evidence suggests people want to adopt when there is a no effort road to adoption. There are vested interests to deal with and satisfy on the road to market penetration, existing market players and governments, but American entrepreneurs like Gates and Jobs were able to overcome vested interests in their time and I suspect Mark is equally resourceful when he wants to be.

Re: Facebook Cryptocurrency Plan Faces Opposition in France

#70

I put this in another thread but I've been shouting it far and wide today. I've lived in China and seen how this plays out. Facebook's new Libra Blockchain will be a centralized bank but way more dangerous. It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. Further, they have no mandate like the centr…

> It will allow for a worldwide social credit system. If Facebook decides to remove you for wrong speak or wrong think, your money and many services will be inaccessible. How is this different than what we have today with banks and credit card companies? The government can already freeze your funds. And now there are examples of people being censored online by being dropped by PayPal, which sets a scary precedent no…

While the grandparent post may have misstated the threat, there is a real danger here.

It is not just a new style of credit card. And while it will act like a bank, it appears it will dodge regulation and consumer protection (limited as it is) under the word "cryptocurrency" or some other neologism poorly understood by the public and legislators.

Will Libra deposits be covered under FDIC? Will it be subject to closures when there is a panic? What rights do depositors have in the event of wrongful transactions?

So it's great if it allows people under repressive or kleptocratic governments more security and freedom. It's fine if it's just a toy to send money to friends. But it's another thing if it's just a bank with an unstated "depositor beware" philosophy. It'd also be a lot less worrisome if the company implementing it had a bit better reputation.

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