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How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

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Re: How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

#61

Post by jonpaul »

barrkel wrote: post #53
edw519 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the memories, Thomas (I think). I remember that drug post from a few years ago. If was about an English PhD who posted that he needed drugs to cope and I really ripped into him. I wasn't upset so much that he "smoked to relax" but that it ended up here, where it could have easily been misunderstood by someone impressionable (and young). I got shredded by my fellow hn'ers that day. Amazing that you remember…

I think you're deeply naive about how human ethics work. You really cannot easily judge someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. I see it a lot: people thinking that character is more important than circumstance, when the reverse is true the vast majority of the time. Character really counts for very little, and in any case you cannot reliably infer much from the ethics of decisions in one circumstan…

You're equating ethics with the law. They are not the same. In some circumstances, it may be seen as ethical to break the law. One that comes off the top of my head would be... what if you're wife is going into labor and you need to speed to get to the hospital? Obviously the scenario presented has its own set of circumstances, but at face value it could be seen as ethical to do so. Or, how about to speed-up and pass someone?

Re: How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

#62

Post by edw519 »

heed wrote: post #33
edw519 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to say, Rich, that was not the response I expected. AFAIC, there is no gray area here. I have argued (yes, many have disagreed with me) the same for years here. A little background... I have seen more deals than you can imagine ruined because someone lost trust. As simple as that. The salesman fibbing to his wife on the phone in front of the customer. The contractor paying the 3rd party vendor a little extra to…

>I have seen more deals than you can imagine ruined because someone lost trust. If you found that (in general) more business deals were lost as a result of being completely honest and outwardly truthful than being deceptive, would you still be involved in business? Completely hypothetical and probably untrue, but I'm curious how strong your ethics are.

I'm curious how strong your ethics are

AFAIC, "ethics" is not a scalar, but a switchable bit, so it's not a matter of strength, but binaryness.

would you still be involved in business?

It sounds like you're asking, "Would I ever sacrifice my personal standards for money?" Then answer is, "No, it's just not worth it."

If I had to compromise my ethics (or any other part of myself) just to improve my chances of making a deal or be more effective in business, I wouldn't even bother. I'd probably just go off and drink beer or write poetry or something like that. You may not like or understand my answer, but that's just the way it is.

Life is just too short to live it any way other than how you choose.

Re: How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

#63

Post by evgeny0 »

Instead of saying "the solution to problem X will actually be available TONIGHT at www.[startupname]ly.com" couldn't you say "the solution to problem X will be available SOON/LATER/NEXT YEAR at www.[startupname]ly.com. Pre-register so we can let you know when it is" ? First, you wouldn't be deceiving anyone. Second, wouldn't it be an even better indication of interest if people are willing to wait for the product?

Re: How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

#64

Post by elai »

edw519 wrote: post #17
aberman wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are being a little melodramatic. This is to vet an idea, not a sustainable way to build a business. I even said that it could/should be more of a thought experiment. And besides, I'm not recommending that you maliciously and deleteriously deceive people. pg on naughtiness: "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not goody-two-…

Sorry to say, Rich, that was not the response I expected. AFAIC, there is no gray area here. I have argued (yes, many have disagreed with me) the same for years here. A little background... I have seen more deals than you can imagine ruined because someone lost trust. As simple as that. The salesman fibbing to his wife on the phone in front of the customer. The contractor paying the 3rd party vendor a little extra to…

So if they said that "We are waiting for more customer response before offering this service" would that be fine?

Re: How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

#65

Post by barrkel »

jonpaul wrote: post #61
barrkel wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're deeply naive about how human ethics work. You really cannot easily judge someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. I see it a lot: people thinking that character is more important than circumstance, when the reverse is true the vast majority of the time. Character really counts for very little, and in any case you cannot reliably infer much from the ethics of decisions in one circumstan…

You're equating ethics with the law. They are not the same. In some circumstances, it may be seen as ethical to break the law. One that comes off the top of my head would be... what if you're wife is going into labor and you need to speed to get to the hospital? Obviously the scenario presented has its own set of circumstances, but at face value it could be seen as ethical to do so. Or, how about to speed-up and pass…

No, I'm not. I'm criticizing a particular mindset which has rules in mind (which may or may not be the law) and judges people by how closely they follow those rules, on the basis that people who break rules in one area may break rules in other areas, simply because rules are rules.

Re: How to (In)validate Your Startup Idea

#66

Post by isomorph »

philwelch wrote: post #59
isomorph wrote: post #46

regarding the lying: didn't bill gates lie to ibm when they were looking for an OS and say he had one (and then bought qdos and hacked it into dos)? think of what a boon microsoft has been to the world (i'm only half facetious) from a utilitarian - the only nonreligious, rational morality? - perspective...

Utilitarianism isn't the only nonreligious, rational perspective on morality. Actually, there aren't any purely rational perspectives on morality, as they all seem to hinge on preserving some intuition or another. But in terms of logically consistent, secular ethical frameworks which produce results most of us are comfortable with, utilitarianism isn't the only one on the list. And there are actually points where uti…

point taken
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