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Stripe Chargeback Protection

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Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#61

Post by aparks517 »

scarface74 wrote: post #22
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

Would you feel that way if you were selling physical goods or even services where you had to pay workers - like a lawn business? It sounds like you are selling a near zero marginal cost software business.

Not sure about OP’s costs, but I sell physical goods and have a similar attitude: I don’t want money from anyone who’s not delighted to give it to me. Most people are good most of the time and it works out fine.

I have had a couple of obvious scammers take advantage, but that’s on them to square with their conscience. Life’s too short to spend it fussing with folks like that.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#62

Post by michaelt »

eeke wrote: post #44
jasonkester wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? When I'm notified of a dispute, the first thing I do is go in and refund the charge. I still have to watch the whole dispute resolution process play out and have it be ruled against me. How would I go about stopping it before it starts, as you seem to imply is possible? Edit to add: Does it even make a difference if I go in and refund the disputed payments? It sounds like I get dinged either way a…

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. These notifications are commonly called TC40s (Visa) or SAFE reports (MasterCard). On average ~60% of early fraud warnings end up being disputed, and most disputes have an early fraud warning (though there’s a wide range depending on your business). If you refund these…

  Card issuers are often able to detect
  that a transaction is fraudulent before
  it is disputed, and when this happens,
  they will send us a notification.
Is there a mechanism like that but in the reverse direction? i.e. if a seller detects someone testing stolen cards, and wants to alert the card issuer all those cards are stolen?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#63

Post by flibble »

eeke wrote: post #24
jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

We can send you a webhook on every dispute being created ( https://stripe.com/docs/webhooks ) and you could use the API to either refund the underlying charge or accept the dispute (and refund the underlying charge). We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s). These are notifications from the issuers that the customer is likely going to dispute a charge. If you're hap…

> We can also give you access to receiving early fraud warnings from issuers (like Visa TC40s).

Can we get webhooks for these? We currently have to manually refund charges when we get the ‘suspicious transaction’ email from stripe, which is a pain.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#64

Post by csa »

czzarr wrote: post #34
eeke wrote: post #8

I’m the PM on Chargeback Protection. Startups told us they don’t want to deal with the hassle and unpredictability of chargebacks; that’s why we built this. Happy to answer any questions you have.

0.4% is an extremely steep price for a company like mine doing over $2.5m in annual turnover (saas) which has a very low fraud rate. I actually think currently we pay less than that by doing nothing (meaning letting Paypal handle it, and losing every case). However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it, or be able to pay it on selected transactions (only US for instance).

> However I'd gladly pay a few thousands per year for it

0.4% on $2.5m is $10k a year. I realize "ten" is a bit more than "a few", but is Stripe's price point materially that far off from where you want it to be?

Said another way, I imagine that there are at least a few problems smaller than chargeback protection at your company that you throw $10k or more at just to make that problem go away... right? If so, this makes their price somewhere between reasonable to good.

I am really curious about your thinking on their price as it relates to other expenses in your company. Could you expand on that?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#65

Post by MichaelApproved »

michaelt wrote: post #62
eeke wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. These notifications are commonly called TC40s (Visa) or SAFE reports (MasterCard). On average ~60% of early fraud warnings end up being disputed, and most disputes have an early fraud warning (though there’s a wide range depending on your business). If you refund these…

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. Is there a mechanism like that but in the reverse direction? i.e. if a seller detects someone testing stolen cards, and wants to alert the card issuer all those cards are stolen?

I think Strip has a report fraudulent transaction feature. I've had someone do several $1 test charges on a donation page for a charity I managed. I was able to report the approved cards as fraudulent transactions.

This was many years ago. At the time, I think it was a beta feature so I'm not sure if it's been rolled out to everyone yet.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#66

Post by GarrisonPrime »

jasonkester wrote: post #10

But this isn't the product I want. I don't want to ever fight chargebacks. Because my policy is to never take money from people who don't want to give it to me. I want to automatically refund every chargeback attempt without it affecting my ability to charge credit cards. One of my businesses targets consumers, who have this amazing ability to "forget to cancel" or to have "cancelled 3 months ago, but for some reason…

You might feel differently if you wasted a whole week on a service, only to get scammed and left with less than nothing and a bad reputation with your bank.

I’ll agree that what you want maybe best for some forms of business, but what are you looking for here? A fundamental change to the credit card system?

Stripe isn’t going to make it not count against you, because the card companies are certainly holding it against Stripe.

So unless you convince Visa and MasterCard to change their way of doing business, I’m not sure you’ll get what you want.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#67

Post by scarface74 »

aparks517 wrote: post #61
scarface74 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you feel that way if you were selling physical goods or even services where you had to pay workers - like a lawn business? It sounds like you are selling a near zero marginal cost software business.

Not sure about OP’s costs, but I sell physical goods and have a similar attitude: I don’t want money from anyone who’s not delighted to give it to me. Most people are good most of the time and it works out fine. I have had a couple of obvious scammers take advantage, but that’s on them to square with their conscience. Life’s too short to spend it fussing with folks like that.

I agree. I use to have rental property and when you evict someone you theoretically can go after them for back rent and fees. It could total well over $2000. But it wasn’t worth the hassle and you factor that possibility into the rent you charge.

Or as my southern grandfather use to say:

Don’t chase after old money or old girlfriends

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#68

Post by judge2020 »

kmfrk wrote: post #59

It'd be great to see Stripe adopted by donation platforms for livestreaming like Streamlabs and StreamElements, chargebacks remain an awful abuse vector there.

Didn't Paypal add a TOS clause (or something along those lines) that prevented donations from being valid for chargeback?

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#69

Post by GarrisonPrime »

awinder wrote: post #52
wayoutthere wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have an easily visible telephone support number, I’m issuing a chargeback. It simply takes less of my time and idgaf about your business model.

Regardless of the ethics of this approach (I don't even want to touch that part), continuously charging back has a number of ways that can ultimately hurt you: 1. If you run this scheme enough and your credit card company flags your account for excessive chargebacks, you could very well have that card shut down and take a credit hit along with it. 2. More and more companies implement against (effectively) data broker…

Few consumers are going to be aware of such potential drawbacks, and those who are will generally risk it anyway. I think you underestimate people’s eagerness to trigger a system that makes them feel powerful and righteous.

Re: Stripe Chargeback Protection

#70

Post by numlocked »

eeke wrote: post #44
jasonkester wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does that work? When I'm notified of a dispute, the first thing I do is go in and refund the charge. I still have to watch the whole dispute resolution process play out and have it be ruled against me. How would I go about stopping it before it starts, as you seem to imply is possible? Edit to add: Does it even make a difference if I go in and refund the disputed payments? It sounds like I get dinged either way a…

Card issuers are often able to detect that a transaction is fraudulent before it is disputed, and when this happens, they will send us a notification. These notifications are commonly called TC40s (Visa) or SAFE reports (MasterCard). On average ~60% of early fraud warnings end up being disputed, and most disputes have an early fraud warning (though there’s a wide range depending on your business). If you refund these…

Yes, but the only way to get that data is to read an email that Stripe sends. There is no programmatic access to the data.
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