American life is improving for the lowest paid • Hacker News Board

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#61

Post by adrusi » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #33

esotericn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never worked an hourly paid job in the UK that has paid holiday. I'm not sure they exist, it's sort of what hourly pay is - you get it when you work and not when you don't. Personally I'm not sure it's something that makes sense, it should just be factored in to the wage. Most hourly paid jobs I know of don't have regular hours, even - how much do you pay for a week's holiday when some weeks the employee works…

> I have never worked an hourly paid job in the UK that has paid holiday. It has been a legal requirement since 1938, so hypothetical that is possible if you're in your mid 95 or older.

Or, you know, never worked an hourly job.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#62

Post by [deleted] » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

olivermarks wrote: post #26

mistermann wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good example of how the news is often both factual and "fake".

I was just listening to one of the Economist podcasts with Cass Sunstein https://soundcloud.com/theeconomist/the-economist-asks-cass The Economist is strictly broadcast, no feedback or comments allowed in any medium. The podcast interviewers introduce themselves but that's a rare exception, no article authors are attributed. Their platform arguably promotes the Rothschild/Agnelli agenda and is useful to keep in touch…

[deleted]

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#63

Post by themagician » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

sockpuppet999 wrote: post #51

themagician wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is both true and mind boggling to me. I employ 5-10 unskilled people at any given time. Mostly for assembly and packing. They get two weeks PTO, and at least a week of paid vacation throughout the year when we close for holidays, mostly more. At the end of the day the total annual cost to provide this is well worth the drama it keeps out of the workplace. Sick days? Take as many as you need. I don’t want sick pe…

What happens to the PTO at the rollover date? Or if an employee accrues more PTO time than the employer will pay. I'm not being caustic here im just wondering what happens to those funds?

It’s use it or lose it. After 60 days I just give two weeks up front and let people use it however they want. Every year I just rebank them up to two weeks. You can’t accrue more than that. Some people wait to get the rebank then quit and take the two week payout. Seems fair to me though.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#64

Post by tzs » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:44 PM UTC

esotericn wrote: post #16

otaviokz wrote: post #4

"What’s really rare, he adds, is his annual week of paid holiday" I may be getting it wrong as I don't live in US, but does it mean he only gets one week of holidays per year? Is there any other form of paid off time?

I have never worked an hourly paid job in the UK that has paid holiday. I'm not sure they exist, it's sort of what hourly pay is - you get it when you work and not when you don't. Personally I'm not sure it's something that makes sense, it should just be factored in to the wage. Most hourly paid jobs I know of don't have regular hours, even - how much do you pay for a week's holiday when some weeks the employee works…

> Personally I'm not sure it's something that makes sense, it should just be factored in to the wage. Most hourly paid jobs I know of don't have regular hours, even - how much do you pay for a week's holiday when some weeks the employee works 8 hours and some 24 hours? An average? Of what, if they've only been there a few months, say?

If you want full time hourly employees (40 hours per week) to earn two weeks of paid vacation per year, then you have hourly workers accrue vacation time at a rate of 1 hour vacation earned for every 25 hours on the clock.

This system handles people who hours worked varies from week to week, and it handles people who have not been there long enough to earn the full two weeks--ever 5 weeks they have accumulated a vacation day, so if they want to take a week off 6 months in, say, that works.

It also works for tracking vacation time for salaried employees. For salaried employees you just force the hours worked to 8 per day in the program that calculates vacation accrual, regardless of the actual hours worked (assuming that you even track actual hours worked for salaried employees).

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#65

Post by peisistratos » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:47 PM UTC

The article text does not really support the headline

> By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%.

With exactly 40 years ago being in the midst of a wage downturn. Go back a little more and real hourly wages have fallen for both groups, despite GDP etc. booming for decades in relation (and out of relation as well) to population growth.

The wealth created by those who work and create wealth goes to the heirs and rentiers in America. The "job creators" who do not work and who parasitically expropriate surplus labor time and the fruits of that time from those if us who do work.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#66

Post by dariota » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:52 PM UTC

sosborn wrote: post #41

luckydata wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it sounds crazy, it's because it is. Working in the US SUCKS for everyone.

> Working in the US SUCKS for everyone. Simply not true. Every 12 months I get three weeks PTO and three weeks sick leave (which is also paid and not connected to my vacation time). PTO will soon jump to 4 weeks after another year of working at my job. I know it isn't this good for everyone, but to say that working in the US sucks for everyone is a ridiculous statement.

Having that little leave is literally illegal here (Ireland, minimum 20 days per year). Sick leave has its limits, but they're so irrelevant that I don't even know what they are.

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#67

Post by will4274 » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:53 PM UTC

FabHK wrote: post #22

ethbro wrote: post #2

Headline: "American life is improving for the lowest paid; Come back capitalism, all is forgiven" Article: Low unemployment means anyone can find a job. "By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%." "Low- and middle-income households remain anxious about volatile ear…

Yeah, quite remarkable. Celebrating a 0.1% annual wage increase over the last 4 decades, one week (!) of paid vacation, and "help" with health insurance as progress. In 2019. It reminds me of the Onion article rejoicing that "Chinese Employers To Grant 15-Minute Maternity Break". https://www.theonion.com/chinese-employers-to-grant-15-minut... "Of course, this measure wouldn't need to be taken at all if pregnant worke…

When you consider that it's 0.9% in the past year, and 3.2% total in the 39 years prior to that, it seems more like something to celebrate.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#68

Post by will4274 » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

peisistratos wrote: post #65

The article text does not really support the headline > By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%. With exactly 40 years ago being in the midst of a wage downturn. Go back a little more and real hourly wages have fallen for both groups, despite GDP etc. booming for…

> The article text does not really support the headline

While that's true, it' mostly because its a bad article rather than the headline being wrong. Of that 4.1% gain over 40 years, 0.9% were in the the past year. America is seeing an economic boom go on longer than expected and low unemployment is allowing people who left the labor market to re-enter and _slowly_ pushing wages up.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/realer.nr0.htm

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#69

Post by adventured » Sat, May 18, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

peisistratos wrote: post #65

The article text does not really support the headline > By last year, the poorest 10% were still earning only a miserly 4.1% more per hour than they did (in real wages) 40 years ago. Median hourly pay for America’s workers was up a little more, by 14%. With exactly 40 years ago being in the midst of a wage downturn. Go back a little more and real hourly wages have fallen for both groups, despite GDP etc. booming for…

The real median household income is up over 43% since 1990. It's up 62% for the bottom 20%.[1]

It's popular to claim that wages have gone nowhere for ~40 years, it's never supported by the actual data. The premise requires that one ignores the cost of health coverage in the US that is commonly paid for or heavily subsidized by an employer (the employee would have to pay far higher taxes for that otherwise, given the per capita healthcare cost in the US is now ~$11,000 -- $33,000 for a family of three). It ignores pretty much every benefit that employees receive today, that did not exist in the early 1970s, including 401k matching.

If companies weren't paying for healthcare benefits, the employees would see their taxes skyrocket. That's a dramatic, obvious, direct wage benefit. In socialized systems such as are common in Europe, the companies do not pay nearly so much for healthcare coverage, instead individuals pay far higher personal taxes, while the average corporate income tax rate is low.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-05-15/wage-s...

Re: American life is improving for the lowest paid

#70

Post by esotericn » Sat, May 18, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #64

esotericn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never worked an hourly paid job in the UK that has paid holiday. I'm not sure they exist, it's sort of what hourly pay is - you get it when you work and not when you don't. Personally I'm not sure it's something that makes sense, it should just be factored in to the wage. Most hourly paid jobs I know of don't have regular hours, even - how much do you pay for a week's holiday when some weeks the employee works…

> Personally I'm not sure it's something that makes sense, it should just be factored in to the wage. Most hourly paid jobs I know of don't have regular hours, even - how much do you pay for a week's holiday when some weeks the employee works 8 hours and some 24 hours? An average? Of what, if they've only been there a few months, say? If you want full time hourly employees (40 hours per week) to earn two weeks of pai…

I think you're missing the point another poster brought up which is that a "holiday hour" for a real hourly worker (e.g. one with flexible hours, shift work etc) is nebulous.

So let's say under your system an employee works an average of 8 hours a week. After half a year they've accrued 8 hours of holiday.

That's 1 day.

The pay isn't the issue but the legal obligation to allow the worker to not work, if that makes sense.

Whether holidays are unpaid or paid is just shuffling cashflow in time, the real problem is the amount of holiday that's possible.