Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes • Hacker News Board

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#61

Post by anoncake » Wed, May 15, 2019, 10:09 AM UTC

V-2 wrote: post #58

anoncake wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Somehow I'm never browsing Facebook or Instagram for pictures of cats and the like. I guess they must have overlooked me when they "dictated" behavior to people. It's great that the methods Facebook uses don't work on you, be it because their "product" just does not interest you or because you have above average self-control. Other people are not as lucky.

My point is that adopting such point of view is a form of fatalism that leads to erosion of self-control.

Realizing that your and other's self-control has limits does not erode it any more than realizing you are not Usain Bolt keeps you from walking. But pretending it has no limits means we rely too much on it when instead we should reduce the need for it. It also means we expect people to resist manipulation when they simply can't.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#62

Post by V-2 » Wed, May 15, 2019, 2:10 PM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #61

V-2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that adopting such point of view is a form of fatalism that leads to erosion of self-control.

Realizing that your and other's self-control has limits does not erode it any more than realizing you are not Usain Bolt keeps you from walking. But pretending it has no limits means we rely too much on it when instead we should reduce the need for it. It also means we expect people to resist manipulation when they simply can't.

But "someone tries to manipulate me" is a quite different mindset than "someone dictates my behavior turning my life it into something mindless" (to slightly paraphrase the comment I originally responded to). Perhaps it's a matter of phrasing that irked me.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#63

Post by ekianjo » Wed, May 15, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

Funes- wrote: post #43

ekianjo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nonetheless, I'm personally not okay with anyone exploiting that. It goes both ways. People use apps to be entertained, share information and pictures because they want to. They download silly games to play during their commute. It's consensual. Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.

>Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. You could say that about smoking as well; it wouldn't make it less addictive, though. The same applies to smartphone apps: they are deliberately addictive, and not transparent about it, unlike the tobacco industry--at least in Europe, which is where I live. I'll say this: everyone can go to hell in a handbasket if they want. However, the deep consequences all of this will hav…

> You could say that about smoking as well; it wouldn't make it less addictive, though

At the end of the day it's not addictive enough that people can not decide to stop it by themselves. Smokers can get rid of their habits by using nicotine patches until they are ready to completely off, and smartphone users can do many other things instead of checking their smartphones if they so wish.

Note that everything is addictive to some degree, that is precisely why people talk about "hobbies", "passions" and so on: music, sports, games, movies, and even work if you are really into something that is intellectually stimulating and rewarding. At the end of the day we all decide what addiction we prioritize versus others.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#64

Post by em-bee » Wed, May 15, 2019, 5:42 PM UTC

vallode wrote: post #57

em-bee wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of my phone time is spent listening to audiodrama and books. on average i spend more time on that than watching tv.

Could you recommend some audio-drama? I'd love to listen to something like that!

uh, direct recommendations is a hard question. it depends on what genres you like. there is tons out there. here are a few resources to get you started:

http://www.audio-drama.com/

https://www.reddit.com/r/audiodrama/

reddit is a good place to get notified about new releases

if you like star trek, check this list: https://startrekreviewed.blogspot.com/2009/06/247.html

that's what got me started with other science-fiction audio drama.

Re: Phones Should Be Like Toothbrushes

#65

Post by anoncake » Fri, May 17, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

V-2 wrote: post #62

anoncake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realizing that your and other's self-control has limits does not erode it any more than realizing you are not Usain Bolt keeps you from walking. But pretending it has no limits means we rely too much on it when instead we should reduce the need for it. It also means we expect people to resist manipulation when they simply can't.

But "someone tries to manipulate me" is a quite different mindset than "someone dictates my behavior turning my life it into something mindless" (to slightly paraphrase the comment I originally responded to). Perhaps it's a matter of phrasing that irked me.

But the issue is not that someone tries to manipulate us, but that they – partially – succeed. So saying that they “dictate our behavior” may be hyperbole, but aside from that, it's the better mindset. Denying a problem exists is rarely useful.

Of course if you understand “dictate” as “dictate to the extent that I cannot resist”, then you might as well deny the issue you believe you can't deal with anyway.