ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11 • Hacker News Board

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#61

Post by Crinus » Wed, May 08, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #54

Crinus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of features does a mail client need though? Up until recently i was using SquirrelMail and only stopped because my webhost removed it (likely because there hasn't been an official release for a few years now... which is weird since there is progress in the code repository, just not official releases). In case you haven't used it, SqurrelMail barely uses anything beyond a couple of frames (normal ones, not i…

> What sort of features does a mail client need though? How about a consistent, reliable implementation of modern web standards? If you had to write a mail client in Java, would you rather target Java 1.5 or the most recent version? Many small (and large) features together make a huge difference when it all adds up to providing an implementation of modern web standards that is consistent with other browsers and with…

It might sound like i am trying to be a contrarian, but Java for me is a special case and actually i'd probably stick with Java 1.5 or even 1.4 which was the last Java that i liked (i always liked the idea of Java as a very simple OO language and i disliked it when it started getting extra baggage - useful baggage to some, but still it deviated from the simplicity). But really that is a case of personal taste. If you replaced Java with some other language, like -say- Go, i'd most likely go with the latest version (...although again Go 2 does sound like it might follow Java's trajectory, so who knows, but for now i'd use the latest one).

But honestly i'm not a fan of requiring the latest version of something just for developer convenience. It might have to do with growing up using outdated computers for years and seeing most programs not work or work slowly/badly, often without a good technical reason (outside programmer preference).

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#62

Post by iamnothere » Wed, May 08, 2019, 2:03 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #60

iamnothere wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For comparison, nobody cares that the Linux kernel isn't a standard. Nobody wants a "competing" Linux kernel implementation. The implementation itself is the standard and reference and that's totally fine. Except for the people working on the BSDs, Hurd, Minix, etc. POSIX is the standard, Linux is the implementation (not completely accurate, but close enough). Apps built to the standard can usually run on BSD with…

> POSIX is the standard, Linux is the implementation (not completely accurate, but close enough) POSIX is more of a post-hoc thing, it doesn't really matter except for compliance - and then Linux isn't compliant. In practice you still need an abstraction layer. If you want to use actual Linux features, you have to use Linux-specific interfaces. Of course a lot of applications don't do that , but that's besides the po…

This is true, and I agree. I think I may have missed this in your original comment:

> The standardization process takes a lot of time and just because something is a standard doesn't mean major players will implement it. Implementations always trump.

Yes, absolutely. Standards are driven by successful implementations. My point was that more, better implementations (leading to new and improved standards) are not a bad thing. The web stagnated during IE's dominance, and it may develop the same sort of stagnation under the dominance of Blink. Some degree of competition is good to keep things moving forward in ways that users want.

Re: ProtonMail is dropping support for Internet Explorer 11

#63

Post by shados » Wed, May 08, 2019, 5:46 PM UTC

gridlockd wrote: post #57

shados wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's just not true Its true enough: it keeps happening. Patch it out or resist all you want, it doesn't matter if you have to acknowledge and deal with its existence, if only because of the amount of energy it takes to push back against it. If it doesn't have a feature you want because they disagree, you can add it to your browser of choice, but it doesn't matter because you still won't be able to use it. It's ex…

You just moved from "market leader can dictate the standard" to "market leader can dictate what developers will want to target". But with that premise, having a standard or not doesn't determine the outcome. Market share determines the outcome. The standards are just recommendations, nothing forces Google or anyone else to implement them.

Fair enough, my wording was bad.

Let's just go with something simpler: Google having the control it has on the implementation (and thus, most everyone else because to make a useful browser you have to make it mostly compatible with Google's implementation that everyone will target) is bad.