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Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

librem.one

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Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#61
post #56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the term paywall isn’t the right one. I’m referring to the premise that you must pay the monthly fee to use the product and whether that is really any more ethical than ad supported products that are free for anyone in the world to use regardless of income.

Ad supported products are not free, as you actually pay with your data. It is very insidious.

Sure, but it must also be recognized that this is true only if you value your data.

In our bubbles we all certainly do. But in the context of a resident in a developing country who can’t afford to pay, the trade off of allowing access to your data rather than no access at all seems more ethical.

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#62
> Purism will generally not contact you for any reason except in the following situations:

> "A lawful request for account information was received"

Maybe sometimes, but the US government has an unconstitutional tool up its belt it has been using freely since 2001:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2709

> 18 U.S. Code § 2709. Counterintelligence access to telephone toll and transactional records

> (c) Prohibition of Certain Disclosure.—

> If a certification is issued under subparagraph (B) and notice of the right to judicial review under subsection (d) is provided, no wire or electronic communication service provider that receives a request under subsection (b), or officer, employee, or agent thereof, shall disclose to any person that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or obtained access to information or records under this section.

TLDR: If the FBI tells them not to, they can't tell you they've given your information away.

In the interest of full disclosure, I believe they should warn people about this.

(Yall probably have heard about this in the form of Warrant Canaries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary)

I like the message, I like the intent, I like what Librem does. I like that they're going to have data after this seeing just how many people are willing to pay money for privacy. I am. I'll probably pay for this software regardless. It's just a shame our own governments are standing between us and actual privacy - I'm starting to wonder who is serving who these days.

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#63
post #51
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get your point.. user tracking for the purpose of serving ads (or any other purpose for that matter) and putting up paywalls (that allow certain users/bots to crawl content) is both unethical.. why does it matter which of the two is the most unethical? You can easily have ethical ads and paywalls, e.g. duckduckgo.

Maybe the term paywall isn’t the right one. I’m referring to the premise that you must pay the monthly fee to use the product and whether that is really any more ethical than ad supported products that are free for anyone in the world to use regardless of income.

I think you'll have a hard time finding people who think it's unethical to require a monthly fee to use the product.

If a product can only exist by violating people's privacy (for the purpose of user tracking ads and whatnot), then perhaps said product shouldn't exist at all. That being said, I highly doubt that you can think of a product that couldn't operate with ethical ads/paid features/non-profit social service funding.

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#64
post #56
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the term paywall isn’t the right one. I’m referring to the premise that you must pay the monthly fee to use the product and whether that is really any more ethical than ad supported products that are free for anyone in the world to use regardless of income.

Ad supported products are not free, as you actually pay with your data. It is very insidious.

[deleted]

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#65

This is quite dishonest, they make it seem like they develop the apps themselves. But they don't and they give no credit to the actual original apps. Librem Chat = Riot.im Librem Social = Mastodon (specifically the Tusky app) Librem Mail = K9 Mail Librem Tunnel = OpenVPN

This is something that I've noticed too. I really want to like this but they are claiming to charge people for apps that they don't own and are already free. If they said that they simply take care of all complicated hosting or simplified the process I'd be more optimistic about this.

> I really want to like this but they are claiming to charge people for apps that they don't own and are already free.

Selling people collections of software (which you didn’t code yourself, you simply repackaged) on floppy disk or tape was an old-school practice in the Free Software world and generally considered perfectly fair.

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#66
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things - you're not paying for apps in any way, they're FLOSS. You're paying for services - infrastructure, administration, "cloud" space etc. Also, while Purism is indeed a for-profit company, it's actually an interesting case since it's a Social Purpose Corporation - it's not there to maximize profits, but to maximize its social purpose. It legally can't do anything that would be at odds with its legally define…

I see your point, but as they’ve also created the apps under their brand it seems likely the monthly fee would also go towards (hopefully!) the continued improvement of those apps.

Judging from my past interactions with people from Purism I'm pretty sure their goal is to have all their improvements going upstream, with forks focusing mostly on branding and cross-integration within the bundle and their hardware.

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#67
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It struck me as odd too seeing familiar apps rebranded. Does Librem publish source code of their modifications?

It's legally bound to release all its software as FLOSS: https://puri.sm/about/social-purpose/

Good to know. So what's the repo URL?

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#68
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legally bound to release all its software as FLOSS: https://puri.sm/about/social-purpose/

Good to know. So what's the repo URL?

Haven't dug particularly for those apps yet, but generally their source repository is at https://source.puri.sm/

Re: Librem One – A growing bundle of ethical services

#70
post #3

First sentence is "Purism is a Social Purpose Corporation (SPC), which means we put social good above exploiting people". I've never heard of a SPC before (probably because I'm not from the US) so had to look it up. It seems it's still a for-profit corporation, just that it "enables, but does not require, considering social or environmental issues in decision making". Which means that "which means we put social good…

Here you can read what exactly Purism specified as its social purpose: https://puri.sm/about/social-purpose/
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