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“Be yourself” is terrible advice

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Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#61

Post by mwfunk »

ionforce wrote: post #45
chillacy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've found again and again is that a lot of advice is good for some people (even most people) but terrible for others. It all depends where you're starting.

What is an example of a person for whom this is terrible advice? I can only jokingly think of people who are naturally hostile or low on EQ. "They can't handle all this!" kind of people.

Those are good examples actually. Basically, if someone really latches on to a "just be yourself and don't think about it" philosophy, they're cutting off their only source of feedback that could help them grow and mature socially.

It's a good approach for someone who's already developed those social skills and wastes a lot of time second guessing themselves, but it's a terrible approach for someone who's really immature or unpolished. It gives them carte blanche to dismiss all conflicts and disagreements as being someone else's fault.

I've known too many people who will formulate vast and complicated worldviews to explain away all their personal troubles, before they'll ever consider looking in the mirror and admitting that they might be able to improve some things about themselves. Example: incels and redpillers. They will change their view of the entire world before they consider changing their view of themselves. Someone who habitually blames everything on other people is unlikely to ever perceive their own faults, and may even embrace them rather than grow out of them.

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#62

Post by areyouseriousxx »

The reason the advice "be yourself" exists, and also why older people tend to be the ones expressing it, is that the danger in not being yourself is that you may wake up one day in a career or surrounded by people that do not accept you for who you are. And you end up trapped in a life where you have to pretend to be something you're not. The idea is that the younger you start being honest about yourself to others, the sooner you will wind up away from people that do not like your true self, and closer to people that appreciate you for that true self.

This advice can backfire if your natural state can get you in trouble and cause damage to your life. A perfect example of people not being themselves for their benefit is mental health services for people with minor issues. While a person's natural state may be to be very emotional, current society frowns upon most emotions beyond happiness, so it may be more beneficial for that person to take a drug to make them more in line with other's emotional level.

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#63

Post by devoply »

projektir wrote: post #60

The danger factor with "be yourself" seems to be similar to the danger factor of "what do you want". These are meant to be interpreted deeply, not shallowly. Most people are neither themselves nor know what they want, in the sense that both concepts are frequently constructed for them and not actually derived from the knowledge or best interest of the person. The first order of business when implementing either is to…

It's also very important to completely understand the implications of "be yourself". Which is often impossible. All of this is canon fodder for the narcissistic individualism which can easily make you into a curmudgeon that no one wants to be around... which will make you socially isolated and ill.

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#64

Post by benj111 »

booleandilemma wrote: post #56
ionforce wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is an example of a person for whom this is terrible advice? I can only jokingly think of people who are naturally hostile or low on EQ. "They can't handle all this!" kind of people.

What is an example of a person for whom this is terrible advice? Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.

How do we know they were being themselves?

Maybe Hitler's true self was being a painter, maybe the horrors of the trenches or Germanys humiliation pushed him to it? Maybe it was the rejection of not being able to sell any paintings.

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#65

Post by zwieback »

The piece is really talking mostly about socializing or interacting with others. In middle school everyone goes through the phase where they are complaining about everyone else "not being themselves." It's at that age that you should learn the lesson that interacting with different groups of people requires tact, empathy and all the other things that make living alongside each other possible. It seems that some people, usually people with a lot of social capital, just take a bit longer to learn that.

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#67

Post by wwweston »

defertoreptar wrote: post #33
ohaideredevs wrote: post #19

Be yourself is a non-statement. I don't know what it means. Does it mean follow my primal urges? Follow my idealistic goals? It doesn't say anything.

To me it means that you should act in a way that more authentically represents your wants and your values. For example, if someone wants to impress someone else, they may act in a way they think is in line with that someone else's wants and values. This can result in awkward and embarrassing situations since it's not natural or well-practiced, and it can result in being deceitful. Instead it's better to acknowledge a…

Then you're back to the question of what it means to be authentic or have true values, a question that's very similar to the question of what it means to be "yourself", and while there's usually implied guides regarding extrinsic and intrinsic motivation, it's not really clear to me that there's an absolute dividing line there, or that it's even easy to sort out decidedly intrinsic/internal values into authentic or not authentic.

I both want to play video games for hours and focus on applications of Richards Curves. I want to exercise and not exercise. I want to meet people and take care of social relationships, and have lots of time to myself. Which desires are more authentic? If one desire transcends a mere want and becomes a value, how would we distinguish that? And then, how would we distill that into meaningful advice?

Probably not effectively with the words "be yourself."

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#68

Post by projektir »

devoply wrote: post #63
projektir wrote: post #60

The danger factor with "be yourself" seems to be similar to the danger factor of "what do you want". These are meant to be interpreted deeply, not shallowly. Most people are neither themselves nor know what they want, in the sense that both concepts are frequently constructed for them and not actually derived from the knowledge or best interest of the person. The first order of business when implementing either is to…

It's also very important to completely understand the implications of "be yourself". Which is often impossible. All of this is canon fodder for the narcissistic individualism which can easily make you into a curmudgeon that no one wants to be around... which will make you socially isolated and ill.

What are those implications from your perspective?

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#69

Post by mattcoles »

Highly recommend the book 'Wisdom of Insecurity' by Alan Watts. This article touches on the search for an immutable self but it doesn't quite make the leap that there isn't one and that the advice to "be yourself" is never going to bring any psychological satisfaction.

Re: “Be yourself” is terrible advice

#70

Post by devoply »

projektir wrote: post #68
devoply wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also very important to completely understand the implications of "be yourself". Which is often impossible. All of this is canon fodder for the narcissistic individualism which can easily make you into a curmudgeon that no one wants to be around... which will make you socially isolated and ill.

What are those implications from your perspective?

To tone down those tendencies in yourself that are likely to cause you to get into bad situations. For instance perhaps you love to argue, often that leads people to dislike you. Find a way to be yourself and do the things that you enjoy doing without getting contempt from other individuals and society... However, there are professions where this is impossible such as porn star for instance. If you choose such a path as I said know the implications and be willing to live with them. Recently Mia Khalifa got very angry for being called a porn star, something she did for 3 months, she claims. There is someone who was trying to discover who they were and trying things and now their entire self is based on something that they regret doing.
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