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Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

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Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#61

Post by mstade »

mrunkel wrote: post #59
dmitriid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US. I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this: - The US: $999 - The EU: €999 - Sweden: 9900 SEK Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive. My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was…

Including VAT and import duties? I find that very hard to believe.

Open the box and plug it in while in the states. Now it’s just property you brought along, not imported goods, so no duties to pay. I ain’t no lawyer though, and this is just advice I’ve been given in the past, so mileage may vary etc. (I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s entirely wrong, someone please correct me!)

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#62

Post by ForHackernews »

mstade wrote: post #61
mrunkel wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Including VAT and import duties? I find that very hard to believe.

Open the box and plug it in while in the states. Now it’s just property you brought along, not imported goods, so no duties to pay. I ain’t no lawyer though, and this is just advice I’ve been given in the past, so mileage may vary etc. (I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s entirely wrong, someone please correct me!)

I'm pretty sure that's legally fraud, but yes, there's a good chance you'd get away with it.

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#63

Post by simonh »

arcticbull wrote: post #31
finebalance wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has a really high import tax on electronic items. Even if Apple charges a slight premium over its US prices, it's still going to be significantly cheaper than what it currently is. For example: a 64 GB iPhone X is currently selling for around 1100 dollars.

Or they keep them the same price and make even more impressive margins. There's a reason they have 87% of the world smartphone profit share [1] and it's not because they're giving them away or passing on the cost savings to their customers. Import duty on iPhones is 18% and 28% on iPads as of 2015. [2] Wealth inequality in India is pretty high (not as high as in the US, though, GINI 35.6 vs 40.4), and it's GDP per ca…

Apple's market share in India is about 2% while in China it's about 7 percent. Apple's profit margin is generally about 30%.

The import tax in India is now 20%. Lets suppose Apple could increase market share in India to match that in China by reducing prices by the 20% tax, and compare that to keeping the 20% as extra profit but not increasing market share.

2% market share on 50% profit margin (existing 30% margin plus tax margin of 20%) sounds pretty good. However 30% profits on 7% market share yields more than double the overall profits.

Finally, all the arguments you make for charging more apply equally well anywhere in the world. So why doesn't Apple charge India prices everywhere in the world already? A simple argument that increased profit margin always beats higher sales implies that the perfect price point is infinity. At some point this strategy must yield diminishing returns.

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#64

Post by xxs »

dmitriid wrote: post #49
Alterlife wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 64 GB iPhone X is currently selling for around 1100 dollars. That isn't right. The iPhone X costs (just under) 1,00,000 INR retail in India, which is over 1400 usd. This includes taxes. For reference: https://www.flipkart.com/mobiles/apple~brand/pr?sid=tyy,4io&

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US. I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this: - The US: $999 - The EU: €999 - Sweden: 9900 SEK Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive. My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was…

Sweden is still in the EU, it has higher VAT than (say) Germany as well. Also iphone x is ~865 on amazon.de[0]. You can order with within the EU (see the 1st sense again), the delivery would be around ~10€, but the price is to be a bit higher due to VAT diff. Side benefit of amazon is that you will never need to deal with apple repair services as you can send the goods back to amazon.

US price has no sale tax (which varies per state and county)

To sum up: if you find the goods at any retailer in the EU, buy them online and pay for the delivery - for light products (electronics), the shipment costs are low when not 'free'.

[0]:https://www.amazon.de/Apple-iPhone-X-64GB-Space-Grau/dp/B075...

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#65

Post by kmlx »

Theodores wrote: post #52
ulfw wrote: post #40

This is so against globalisation and global trade it‘s not even funny. Totally cool if Apple did this voluntarily, but the only reason they‘re doing it is to prevent high import taxes. India is a huge market. So it‘s all good. Brazil is a good deal smaller and requires the same thing. So does Argentina (and is even smaller). Now imagine every country would do this.

> India is a huge market. There was a time when the British destroyed the textiles trade in India and made everyone buy stuff made in Manchester. Before that India had 25% or so of the global market. With a billion or so people living in the sub-continent there should be an indigenous mobile phone and eco-system that suits the market better than what Silicon Valley can provide. China can do it, Europe used to be able…

what's up with so much nationalism coming from India?

why would it matter where you're sending a portion of your so-called "wealth" when you're getting something in return?

considering the horrific state India is in (high corruption, high poverty, low healthcare, no infrastructure, you name it), the location of where an iPhone is produced should literally be the last thing the government cares about.

maybe the value of the potential taxes are too much for the government not to stick their hands in?

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#66

Post by Kurtz79 »

dmitriid wrote: post #49
Alterlife wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 64 GB iPhone X is currently selling for around 1100 dollars. That isn't right. The iPhone X costs (just under) 1,00,000 INR retail in India, which is over 1400 usd. This includes taxes. For reference: https://www.flipkart.com/mobiles/apple~brand/pr?sid=tyy,4io&

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US. I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this: - The US: $999 - The EU: €999 - Sweden: 9900 SEK Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive. My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was…

"That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency."

It makes no sense comparing US and EU prices directly, as the former are always shown without VAT (which varies state from state), and in the latter the VAT is included (which is specific to each country).

Also, price will fluctuate even across EU countries, on account of different VAT taxes in the individual member states, so that Apple "keeps the same digits" it is simply not true, as a rule:

iPhone X 64GB USA(no VAT): 999$ https://www.apple.com/us_kiosk_5000012/shop/buy-iphone/iphon...

iPhone X 64GB Italy (VAT 22%): 1189€ https://www.apple.com/it/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xs

iPhone X 64GB Spain (VAT 21%): 1159€ https://www.apple.com/es/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xs

The only way to compare them is to remove VAT, for example in the case of Italy:

1189/(1+0.22)= 974€ -->> 1100$ (current exchange rate).

So, there is about 10% difference, which could be (partly) accounted for due to the different warranty requirements in EU.

EDIT: Fixed math

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#67

Post by [deleted] »

dmitriid wrote: post #49
Alterlife wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 64 GB iPhone X is currently selling for around 1100 dollars. That isn't right. The iPhone X costs (just under) 1,00,000 INR retail in India, which is over 1400 usd. This includes taxes. For reference: https://www.flipkart.com/mobiles/apple~brand/pr?sid=tyy,4io&

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US. I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this: - The US: $999 - The EU: €999 - Sweden: 9900 SEK Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive. My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was…

[deleted]

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#68

Post by simonh »

Kurtz79 wrote: post #66
dmitriid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US. I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this: - The US: $999 - The EU: €999 - Sweden: 9900 SEK Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive. My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was…

"That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency." It makes no sense comparing US and EU prices directly, as the former are always shown without VAT (which varies state from state), and in the latter the VAT is included (which is specific to each country). Also, price will fluctuate even across EU countries, on account of different VAT taxes in the individual member states,…

Nice analysis. If you factor in local sales taxes in the US, that 10% difference shrinks or even disappears pretty fast.

I'm afraid 'Apple charges more abroad' is largely a fallacy. Where there is a difference, it's almost always pretty clearly due to local taxes or costs of doing business. This used to really piss off Steve J[1] because he saw it as terribly unfair.

[1] https://www.imore.com/steve-jobs-international-ipad-pricing-...

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#69

Post by DJN »

kmlx wrote: post #65
Theodores wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India is a huge market. There was a time when the British destroyed the textiles trade in India and made everyone buy stuff made in Manchester. Before that India had 25% or so of the global market. With a billion or so people living in the sub-continent there should be an indigenous mobile phone and eco-system that suits the market better than what Silicon Valley can provide. China can do it, Europe used to be able…

what's up with so much nationalism coming from India? why would it matter where you're sending a portion of your so-called "wealth" when you're getting something in return? considering the horrific state India is in (high corruption, high poverty, low healthcare, no infrastructure, you name it), the location of where an iPhone is produced should literally be the last thing the government cares about. maybe the value…

It’s because where the money goes is where it circulates, which ultimately affects the GDP.

Every dollar that leaves India, Nigeria or any other developing country is one less dollar that can pay for jobs (plumbers, electricians, doctors etc) in the local market.

South Africa used to have very restrictive currency export controls partly due to apartheid-era sanctions, and one consequence is that it stimulated domestic production and innovation, perhaps far more than any other African country. They’ve now relaxed those controls but it is arguable that they were necessary at that stage of their economic development.

Re: Mass Production of iPhones to Start in India

#70

Post by xorcist »

xxs wrote: post #64
dmitriid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s what Apple usually does: they keep roughly the same digits, and change the currency. And it usually makes their products significantly more expensive outside of the US. I live in Sweden, and the pricing will go like this: - The US: $999 - The EU: €999 - Sweden: 9900 SEK Depending on currency rates, it can become up to 30% more expensive. My favorite discovery was around the time of the trashcan MacPro. It was…

Sweden is still in the EU, it has higher VAT than (say) Germany as well. Also iphone x is ~865 on amazon.de[0]. You can order with within the EU (see the 1st sense again), the delivery would be around ~10€, but the price is to be a bit higher due to VAT diff. Side benefit of amazon is that you will never need to deal with apple repair services as you can send the goods back to amazon. US price has no sale tax (which…

Note that within the EU, as soon as you sell over a certain limit to a member country you have to charge VAT in the destination country. So large retailers will list prices with their respective VAT included and then re-calculate prices when you get to the payment stage (when they know which country you order from).
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