Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders • Hacker News Board

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#61

Post by andrewingram » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:43 PM UTC

tokyodude wrote: post #48

I'm really curious where social anxiety comes from. I get it though not crippling most of the time. But for example public speaking I can logically see that I publicly speak any time I'm at dinner with friends or voice my thoughts in a meeting so it's strange to me that officially speaking would have so different a feeling but it does.

For me it's the anticipation of putting myself on the line. I can speak up in meetings where I know i'm an authority, but struggle to do so when I don't have that role. Social situations with people I don't know well will nearly always have me looking for ways to avoid it, even though I've been told repeatedly that I'm very personable. I've done group salsa performances in front of hundreds (possibly thousands) of people, but I need to get very drunk to do regular club (not salsa) dancing.

My best guess as to the origin is the environment at home when growing up. Without going into too much detail, it was very stressful and I felt like I didn't have a voice.

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#62

Post by andrewingram » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:46 PM UTC

rjth wrote: post #35

I have been taking low dosage Propranolol for about a year now. It was prescribed for me for my hemiplegic migraines. Combined with exercise and occasional CBD oil it has completely eliminated migraines from my life. This medication is absolutely brilliant and harmless. Also keeps my resting heart rate around 55. If you struggle with migraines, talk to your neurologist, for me it was a life changer.

My resting heart rate is about 55, and I don't do a lot (arguably not any) of cardio. I'm probably in the group of people who shouldn't take propranolol.

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#63

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

thrav wrote: post #53

blattimwind wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Propranolol achieves selective erasure: It targets the emotional component, but knowledge is intact. They know what happened, but they aren’t scared anymore. The fear association is affected, but not the innate fear response to a threat stimulus [...] This single-session therapy addressing what psychologists call fear memory reconsolidation emotional/fear association sounds like a type of memory to me.

Read “The Body Keeps the Score”, it is. Your entire nervous system has a memory, not just your brain. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22429941-200-the-life...

[deleted]

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#64

Post by roland00 » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:52 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #59

Don't some people who have, say, a social anxiety disorder already take a dose of propranolol one hour before a social event? So isn't this discovery already widely known among propranolol users?

Yes, but this research (even though similar research occurred prior) is about "guided therapy" where the therapist is trying to specifically trigger a memory but also help the patient figure out new coping strategies and turning those new coping strategies into habits so the automatic anxiety induced habit is not the only coping mechanism.

Taking a dose of propranolol prior to a stressful situation is a different type of environment with different goals for how will interact with the environment.

----

This is not new research for we had replication research of the connection with specific Beta receptors in the amygdala and the hippocampus in 2004 with fear and Yadda, Yadda, Yadda... with prior breakthrough research happening even earlier. But there are so many interactions with so many systems that research after 2004 is about learning the "best practices and best applications" of how to treat patients. Science and Medicine is a continuous undertaken process. This researcher M Soeter has a dozen important scientific papers on the detail of this process from 2009 to 2018.

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#65

Post by grezql » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:53 PM UTC

ransom1538 wrote: post #28

petercooper wrote: post #18

As someone who has used propranolol on and off over the past few years, the thing that intrigues me here is that propranolol works well in this instance due to crossing the blood/brain barrier as opposed to other beta blockers that do not. The use of beta blockers in anxiety is commonly associated with reducing the effects of stress on heart rate and blood pressure, not necessarily on affecting the brain directly whi…

If you are out there and suffer daily 'stage fright' or serious social anxiety - propranolol is the drug for you. That weird fear that sweeps over you before a conversation - just doesn't happen. Need to talk in front of 50 people in 25 minutes? No problem. If you are crippled by social anxiety - this pill will turn you into Bradley Cooper in Limitless.

it had very little effect on me. It even caused my blood pressure to drop so much that i got brain freeze and started to forget things. coldsweat etc.

I stopped using it, and learned the hard way to do public speak.

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#66

Post by grezql » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

hnzix wrote: post #36

IAmGraydon wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I’m an outlier, but it had absolutely no effect on me for public speaking or social situations. I was prescribed a lot of it, tried for years and even still have some sitting around. I envy those who get the effects you describe.

Yeah it slows my heart rate and chills me out a little but it's no magic cure for generalized social anxiety in my case. I've had better outcomes from eliminating caffeine. I do like that (for me) Propranolol has minimal side effects other than mild drowsiness.

yes same, caffeine was one of the culprits for me too. i kicked it out entirely. much much better nowadays

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#67

Post by JulianMorrison » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:00 PM UTC

mchannon wrote: post #56

Living with someone with crippling PTSD and anxiety disorders, I'm thrilled to hear about this study. As someone who's dealt with an oppressive government (which is where the PTSD and anxiety came from), I wonder if this therapy can be weaponized by the powerful to oppress the powerless. The rise of the warrior cop is bad enough, but what about a crack squad that has been chemically desensitized to killing in cold bl…

That worry feels like a stretch, because right now, the many oppressive governments of the world are not in the least suffering logistical difficulties due to their stormtroopers getting PTSD.

There are I think 2 main reasons why not:

- Stormtroopers are people who have non functioning empathy, by nature or nurture, they don't experience killing in cold blood as horrific.

- Stormtroopers are a cheap commodity. The oppressive government doesn't mind using them up.

On the other hand the people who are subject to crippling PTSD are victims of stormtroopers, directly and via losing friends. And a few doses of this stuff smuggled in might effectively reignite the fire in a resistance movement.

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#68

Post by zackbloom » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:04 PM UTC

> Fifteen received 40 mg of propranolol after spending 2 minutes in proximity to a large tarantula, 15 got placebo, and another 15 received propranolol without exposure to a tarantula.

What about a group who was exposed to the tarantula without the propranolol?

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#69

Post by api » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

mchannon wrote: post #56

Living with someone with crippling PTSD and anxiety disorders, I'm thrilled to hear about this study. As someone who's dealt with an oppressive government (which is where the PTSD and anxiety came from), I wonder if this therapy can be weaponized by the powerful to oppress the powerless. The rise of the warrior cop is bad enough, but what about a crack squad that has been chemically desensitized to killing in cold bl…

Nah... if anything trauma can make some people better oppressors and killers. It induces dissociation.

It's part of why you see generational cycles of violence. Each traumatized generation traumatizes the next.

Re: Single-dose propranolol tied to ‘selective erasure’ of anxiety disorders

#70

Post by tigershark » Sun, Apr 14, 2019, 2:16 PM UTC

zackbloom wrote: post #68

> Fifteen received 40 mg of propranolol after spending 2 minutes in proximity to a large tarantula, 15 got placebo, and another 15 received propranolol without exposure to a tarantula. What about a group who was exposed to the tarantula without the propranolol?

The 15 that got placebo didn’t get propranolol