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Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

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Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#61

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

what is "free"?

There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it.

I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#62

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

And allow for students to file for bankruptcy on their student loans. That will force colleges to slash their insane budgets and stop building luxury dorms, new stadiums, and lay off the countless and unnecessary admins.

Salaries for adjunct professors teaching the classes cannot get any lower, so the quality of education could remain about the same

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#63
post #61

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

Free at the point of use, the way normal people mean it.

Re: the responsibility thing, it’s a fundamental difference in ideology and subjective preference, I get it, and I’m not going to argue it. I used to make the same argument, actually. My own subjective preference is to live in a developed nation where everyone has a good on-ramp towards work that they find fulfilling and interesting, and where everyone pays it forward. Other countries get better outcomes in this regard so I want to follow their lead. Anyways see you at the ballot box.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#64
post #10

The obvious point to make is that American student loans already suck so this may be an alternative. However, this makes me feel really uncomfortable. The first is the same reason as student loans: At the age you're agreeing this you are very unlikely to correctly judge your own value. It's the same reason why students take on ridiculously onerous student loans. The solution to that problem in my mind though is to re…

15%? You might wanna do the math again dude.

Also the entire point of an equity like arrangement is that the investor gets a larger fraction of the upside and in exchange for agreeing to eat the downside if the investment doesn’t work out. Comparing it to the APR of a normal student loan misses the point entirely. With a regular loan you have to pay the same amount whether you’re making minimum wage or 200k/year, whereas with an equity-like arrangement you only have to pay the max amount if you make a lot of money.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#65
I'm having a hard time thinking of ISAs as much more than a ridiculously high interest loan, especially for those who are self-motivated have a high probability of landing a job after doing X course.

E.g. Lambda school is $20k if you prepay and maxes out at $30k over 2 years, which is effectively a 45% interest loan. Even if you didn't have the cash (or didn't want to fork out) the cash, a typical loan taken out today will have a single digit interest rate.

Personally I'm completely happy with my federal student loan terms for the $20k or so I have left to pay. I stretched it out to 20 years, pay a 5.5% interest rate, the interest rate is deductible you make below a certain income, and barely think of it outside of doing my taxes.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#66
post #62

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

And allow for students to file for bankruptcy on their student loans. That will force colleges to slash their insane budgets and stop building luxury dorms, new stadiums, and lay off the countless and unnecessary admins. Salaries for adjunct professors teaching the classes cannot get any lower, so the quality of education could remain about the same

We could even cancel a trillion dollar fighter jet or two.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#67
post #10

The obvious point to make is that American student loans already suck so this may be an alternative. However, this makes me feel really uncomfortable. The first is the same reason as student loans: At the age you're agreeing this you are very unlikely to correctly judge your own value. It's the same reason why students take on ridiculously onerous student loans. The solution to that problem in my mind though is to re…

>Purdue, for example, caps total payments at 2.5 times what a student borrowed, so the most successful don’t feel gouged. That would be a 15 year loan at 15% APR. That IS gouging. 15% APR isn't gouging. That's a typical APR for an unsecured personal loan, which this is. Well, it's actually worse than an unsecured loan for the lender since payment is tied to employment. So, not egregious. It's also not 15 years. The t…

  Where did you even get the 15% APR from?
A $10,000 loan with a total repayable of $25,000 over 15 years would have an APR of 15% and a monthly payment of $140 [1]

  It's also not 15 years. The term maxes out at less
  than 10 years for English majors.
If your total repayable is 250%, having the term be shorter means the APR is higher †. 22.3% APR for 10 years, in fact [2]

Paying back 250% over 8.5 years? That'll be a 26.2% APR [3]

So that 250% payback limit only kicks in if you've got a pretty raw deal.

[1] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=$10000+loan+over+15+ye...

[2] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=$10000+loan+over+10+ye...

[3] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=$10000+loan+over+8.5+y...

† Of course, one could argue APR is a poor measure for precisely this reason.

Re: Income-sharing agreements let students trade future earnings for investment

#68
post #61

Make the college free and provide students with a living stipend. Return higher education subsidies (and tax brackets) to their 1950s levels. Join the rest of the developed world.

what is "free"? There is no "free", it just means I have to pay for it. I prefer to pay for my own responsibilities, not for people to get underwater basketweaving degrees.

And this is exactly what's wrong with the US right now. No one cares to help anyone else.

Even in healthcare! "I have my money, if they die it's because they chose to be poor."

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