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VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

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Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about European based/GDPR compliant VPNs? Wouldn't they require to truthfully disclose if and what they log?

Not really. The GDPR is overridden by various laws relating to national security, terrorism laws, and whatnot. It does not prevent or forbid EU nations from collecting intelligence on their citizens.

It does prevent unlawful access and unlimited data collection by corporate entities. (Including fruit of poisonous tree doctrine.)

What the ISP doesn't collect or process, cannot be had as historical data for court cases for example. Albeit the GDPR exemption is pretty open for "required to provide service" data processing.

Wiretapping is a separate matter.

Most importantly, any third party data processing and sale has to be clearly outlined including purpose.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about European based/GDPR compliant VPNs? Wouldn't they require to truthfully disclose if and what they log?

Not really. The GDPR is overridden by various laws relating to national security, terrorism laws, and whatnot. It does not prevent or forbid EU nations from collecting intelligence on their citizens.

But it prevents adtech to collect info.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#63

Author has a computer science understanding of VPNs but is breathtakingly ignorant as to the actual use cases of commercial VPNs. They're used for getting around geoocming and media throttling sure, but the biggest use is piracy. Also, his disbelief of anonymous payment methods is incredibly stupid. I can walk into a store right now and get a prepaid visa using cash, no crypto currency shenanigans required.

> I can walk into a store right now and get a prepaid visa using cash

WalMart, Target, and many other large retailers retain photographic records of all purchasers. Many cases have been broken by police claiming to have found a match at a WalMart for the purchase of items committed in some crime.

So cash purchases of cards is not always a completely anonymous choice.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#64

Author has a computer science understanding of VPNs but is breathtakingly ignorant as to the actual use cases of commercial VPNs. They're used for getting around geoocming and media throttling sure, but the biggest use is piracy. Also, his disbelief of anonymous payment methods is incredibly stupid. I can walk into a store right now and get a prepaid visa using cash, no crypto currency shenanigans required.

Did the author ever claim that the other use cases were prominent uses? He spends the entire blog talking about encryption and anonymity which would be related to hiding piracy.

Personally, the only reason I use VPNs is for region-locked content. How are you sure this isn't a bigger use case than you think?

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#65
Great article for bringing across the basics and I do wholeheartedly agree that just because a VPN promises to do X it doesn’t necessarily have to do that and that the advertising is sometimes deceiving, but I don’t agree with everything OP said.

> in theory, your ISP could keep a list of all domains you requested and based on that, they would have a pretty good understanding of what you were doing online

I would argue that this is not theory but reality. In the EU you have the Data Retention Directive forcing telecoms to store metadata for a period of between 6 months and 2 years for example. [1]

> With a VPN, all you end up doing is shifting the trust from one party to another. You are not gaining anything.

I know this article is about commercial VPN’s but what if I run my own VPN? Then I do gain some privacy. I’m not saying to use a self hosted VPN and you’re good to go; a VPN in my opinion is a vital part to improve privacy but it’s just that, a single part.

> what is your reasoning behind trusting an anonymous company [..] more than you trust your ISP, which is a big company with [..] something to lose?

I’d argue that a VPN, even a commercial one is more trustworthy than my ISP, who doesn’t need to care if I trust them. It’s in the interest of my VPN to protect/delete my data if they say they do so. My ISP does not make that promise, quite the contrary actually.

> if you pay for a VPN service, [..] your VPN account will be linked to your actual identity

It’s entirely possible to pay for a commercial VPN anonymously, Mullvad for example offers the option of paying via cash that you physically mail them. [2] Many offer payment with crypto currencies.

> Large commercial VPNs [..] make governmental surveillance easier.

That’s not true and it’s what bothers me the most about this article. Why wouldn’t my government just get the data from my ISP? There are far less ISP’s than there are VPN’s. In Germany for example Telekom alone had around 18 Million customers in 2017 and Vodafone had another 10 Million. I’d assume strongly that you’d have to get to a lot of VPN providers to reach nearly 20 Million people. Personally I just assume that every request I make with my ISP’s DNS is known to my government.

Another thing: a VPN can protect it’s user. In Germany for example it should be expected that when you torrent copyrighted content, like a movie, you’ll get a letter from a law agency like “Waldorf Frommer”. Those law agencies only purpose is to go after copyright infringement by connecting to the torrent swarm and logging IP’s. They then ask your ISP to hand over your address and a week later they’ll send you a letter asking for fines in the realm of €1k. [3] They sometimes go to court to collect those fines. Regardless of how you might feel about copyright infringement that is a valid use case where a VPN will protect it’s user.

[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_retention

[2] - https://mullvad.net/en/

[3] - https://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Ignorance-isn-t-Bliss-Rights...

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can be forced to log There is no legislation in the US that can be used to do this [1]. Some very misguided companies may voluntarily log, but those that care about privacy or, at the least, realize that holding people's data is a liability, won't make poor decisions like that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_retention#Failed_mandator...

Oh come on now. The US Government forces tech companies to share information all the time. http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/us-government-threatened-yahoo-bi... They certainly can, and will, go after any company they want to, without referencing any specific US legislation.

The demands mentioned in your link did reference specific US legislation: FISA section 702.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#67
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can be forced to log There is no legislation in the US that can be used to do this [1]. Some very misguided companies may voluntarily log, but those that care about privacy or, at the least, realize that holding people's data is a liability, won't make poor decisions like that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_retention#Failed_mandator...

Perhaps not (I’m not certain about the issue), but they can be forced to hand over their private keys to let the NSA [ed: or other agency] do the logging for them – as happened with Lavabit.

s/NSA/DOJ.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#68

> If you are using your device on a public network, VPNs can help you protect your data. I have a ProtonVPN subscription myself, just for those instances where I am sitting in an airport waiting for my plane Seems like a contradictory message. He just got through telling us how most of the web is now end-to-end encrypted with HTTPS. So why does he need a VPN at the airport? Is he checking his email? I can't imagine t…

[deleted]

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#69
post #5

Seems to ignore two things... a) Your ISP is almost always in the same legal jurisdiction as you are. A VPN need not be. b) A VPN has some incentive to deliver on privacy. Your ISP does not. It's fair to call out that a VPN isn't perfect for either privacy or anonymity. But it clearly can be better than your ISP.

No it cannot be better. It can be only equally good or as bad as your ISP. Just because they claim that they protect your privacy that's just a blind faith.

Users trusted PureVPN claims for protecting their privacy but all it took was an FBI investigation and through court documents to find out that they actually were keeping logs, despite all their claims.

Re: VPN – Very Precarious Narrative

#70
post #43

The slimy marketing around centralized VPN services is why I consider it a point of pride to include the following as a "feature" in the AlgoVPN readme ( > Anti-features > * Does not support legacy cipher suites or protocols like L2TP, IKEv1, or RSA > * Does not install Tor, OpenVPN, or other risky servers > * Does not depend on the security of TLS > * Does not require client software on most platforms > * Does not c…

FSM == Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Russian intelligence service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Security_Service
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