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Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

nytimes.com

61–70 of 731 posts

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#61
post #44
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an argument against renewables only when the renewables are expensive. When renewables are cheap, then nuclear is placed in an impossible situation, as nuclear either displaces the renewables when they ARE available (incurring a large marginal cost), or only runs when they aren't (forcing nuclear's large fixed costs to be amortized over much less output). It's likely that a cost optimized grid will have little o…

Unless you do solar and mostly skip wind, in which case you can build enough nuclear to run the nighttime load and solar for just the extra daytime load, then you can run the nukes 24/7. That minimizes both nuclear downtime and storage requirements. But if we're going to build a lot of wind, that still doesn't necessarily doom nuclear, if we can lower the capital cost of nuclear. The article describes some fairly sim…

Running nuclear plants just at night would double the cost of that power. This would be insane.

Using nuclear instead of solar when solar was available would increase the cost of that power by a factor of 3 or more. That would also be insane.

Nuclear just doesn't have a place on a grid with a large renewable supply.

EDIT: You wrote:

"I agree that would be insane, which is why I said to run the nuclear 24/7 and build enough solar for the extra demand during the day."

This is case #2, using nuclear power during the day when you could have used cheap solar. It makes no sense economically at current nuclear costs.

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#63
post #12

The problem isn't cost of power generated, its the ability to respond to rapid volatility - when clouds obscure solar panels, and when the wind stops blowing. Nuclear cannot do this so it is useless. Batteries and gas power plants can which is why they are being rolled out. Wind, Solar, Gas, Batteries and Electric Vehicles are existing solutions to the climate problem. The market will implement them slowly, since the…

No, it's the cost of power. And even if nuclear were technically able to respond instantly, it's economically pointless, since if you don't run a nuclear plant most of the time the cost of power goes all to hell.

You can do a few things to solve this problem:

* Couple the nuke to a large thermal storage system and load follow with that

* Use steam bypass to switch energy from the turbogenerator to desalination, direct decarbonization, liquid fuel synthesis, district heating, industrial processes, and so on.

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#64
post #28
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: New nuclear power plants are hugely expensive to build in the United States today. This is why so few are being built. But they don’t need to be so costly. The key to recovering our lost ability to build affordable nuclear plants is standardization and repetition. ... Currently, as M.I.T.’s Richard Lester, a nuclear engineer, has written, a company proposing a new reactor design faces “the prospect of having to…

The US never had the ability to build affordable nuclear plants. That's a major reason the first nuclear construction boom fizzled out here.

> The US never had the ability to build affordable nuclear plants.

Sure it has. They're just getting used by the Navy, not by civilians. There's no reason why the same methods that have been successfully used to control cost and schedule for those reactors couldn't be used for civilian reactors.

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#65
post #42
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought that nuclear waste was a non problem. It is a minuscule amount of confined hazardous material. Even if you don't recycle it, the impact on the environment is negligible. But I agree that the devastation of huge areas of land is a problem, but let's also keep in mind that the reactors that blew up where early generations reactors. More modern design do not present those risks [1]. Judging nuclear ener…

> But I agree that the devastation of huge areas of land is a problem, but let's also keep in mind that the reactors that blew up where early generations reactors. With "early generation reactors" you mean all the ones that exist. The whole "next generation reactor" / "generation 4 reactor" thing is at this point nothing more than vague plans for what could be.

That's overstating things. Fukushima was built in the 70s. A nearby reactor faced the same challenges but was built a decade later, and it was fine. That's just a GenII, still not as safe as the GenIII+ we're building now.

Chernobyl, of course, was a horrific design that didn't even have a containment dome. Nobody builds reactors like that anymore.

And GenIV is a little more than vague plans; e.g. Terrestrial Energy's molten salt reactor has already gotten through the hardest part of Canada's licensing process, which puts them on track for a demo reactor by 2025 or so.

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#66

Nuclear is not a viable solution, due to public opinion. A nuclear reactor has an incident once every 10.000 years. If we divide that with the number of reactors we get an accident every 30 or so years. (Harrisburg, Chernobyl, Fukusima, ligns up well with that) Every time there is an accident, the public turns against nuclear for 5-10 years. Add to that that it takes a decade to plan and build a reactor, and you real…

Thorium reactors?

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#67

Nuclear is not a viable solution, due to public opinion. A nuclear reactor has an incident once every 10.000 years. If we divide that with the number of reactors we get an accident every 30 or so years. (Harrisburg, Chernobyl, Fukusima, ligns up well with that) Every time there is an accident, the public turns against nuclear for 5-10 years. Add to that that it takes a decade to plan and build a reactor, and you real…

That assumes the technology won't get much better. But there are a ton of potential ways to improve nuclear, like LFTR.

Just like renewables getting better.

So why even bother with that old, dangerous and radioactive tech?

I really hope the lobby runs out of money soon...this artificial hype is terrible.

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#68
post #21

The problem isn't cost of power generated, its the ability to respond to rapid volatility - when clouds obscure solar panels, and when the wind stops blowing. Nuclear cannot do this so it is useless. Batteries and gas power plants can which is why they are being rolled out. Wind, Solar, Gas, Batteries and Electric Vehicles are existing solutions to the climate problem. The market will implement them slowly, since the…

Interesting this gets quickly downvoted. I totally agree with what he/she says. Screwing up once, then the site is fucked for total human eternity, and you have a no-go zone on the map forever. Afterall, "Anything That Can Possibly Go Wrong, Does".

"Forever" may be a bit of an overstatement as we get better understandings of the health effects of low-dose radiation. Wolves are loving it in there (people were worse than radiation for them) [1].

[1] https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/animals/a22011471/c...

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#69

Nuclear is not a viable solution, due to public opinion. A nuclear reactor has an incident once every 10.000 years. If we divide that with the number of reactors we get an accident every 30 or so years. (Harrisburg, Chernobyl, Fukusima, ligns up well with that) Every time there is an accident, the public turns against nuclear for 5-10 years. Add to that that it takes a decade to plan and build a reactor, and you real…

Clearly, we just need to outsource reactors to third-world countries that are ok with being irradiated! ... I nominate Alabama!

Re: Nuclear power is the fastest way to slash greenhouse gas emissions, decarbonize

#70
Nuclear could have saved the world 30 years ago. I'm afraid it's just too risky now. Nuclear is not dangerous if we have organized human life managing it. However, the risks are such that there may not be the know-how or organization in the future to keep the plants going or have an organized decommissioning of the existing plants.

The technology change would also need to be drastic because we cannot rely on cold ocean waters to cool the plants.

In other words, we should have done it 30 years ago when the risk of societal collapse wasn't so great and we had the confidence that we can maintain this technology.

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