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Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

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Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#61

Post by Consultant32452 »

EGreg wrote: post #31
RileyJames wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in Walmart last night and they had no bags. I asked, “have you stopped providing bags now?” Fully expecting the answer to be yes, BYO only now. “No, we’ve run out of the paper bags. We’re switching to plastic bags tomorrow” Seriously? Wow.

Stores should provide non plastic bags and give you a large discount for returning/reusing them.

The trouble with paper bags is that they don't biodegrade without oxygen, which is what happens when you bury paper under tons of other material in a land fill. So the paper and the plastic are both there 100 years later, but the paper takes up more space in the long run because it doesn't compress as small. Unfortunately there's no good answer here yet that I've seen.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#62

Post by A2017U1 »

Ultramanoid wrote: post #38
A2017U1 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are claiming China paid money for recycling waste and then threw it straight in the ocean? Seems incredibly implausible.

I am not saying such thing. Quite the opposite. First of all, China was paid to receive it. And I am pointing to the fact that the Western plastic waste problem ( to the point of the comment saying if you're in the West, whatever happens in China is not something to feel guilty about ), is not limited to the West, when for processing it is sent to Asia.

> First of all, China was paid to receive it.

That is completely wrong, you'll need to provide evidence here, it's strange so many replies say the same.

China pays for their recycling imports and get a good deal on shipping. Current tariff wars have changed this environment and now they won't take it.

California alone earns billions selling waste to them

> In 2016, California’s exports of recyclables amounted to 15 million tons, worth an estimated $4.6 billion. Some 62 percent of that exported material went to China in 2016

https://resource-recycling.com/plastics/2018/01/24/china-fal...

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#63

Post by saagarjha »

cageface wrote: post #58
ehnto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

As much as it would be great to get everyone on plant-based diets, it's not going to happen anytime soon. So I guess, for the environment at least, fish is the best we can do until then?

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#64

Post by fiblye »

ehnto wrote: post #56
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

Fish farming generally uses ocean fish as feed.

In terms of CO2, chicken is about as environmentally friendly as animal proteins get. Chickens also don’t really require any special diet and grow quickly. Dealing with chicken waste is a problem, but if you live in the US, chicken “litter” is fed to cows.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#65

Post by hvidgaard »

toofy wrote: post #59
eecc wrote: post #3

Just like Climate Change, oceanic plastic pollution is a case of Tragedy of the commons. I can separate my waste and recycle as much as I want (and I do!) but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. This is nothing that can be solved with personal initiative and responsibility; it requires international regulation and enforcement. There’…

> but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. Even if that random idiot dumps their recycling, it is anything but useless. If you didn't recycle, that would be at least 2 idiots dumping their recycling. Sorry for being pedantic, but it troubles me when people worry they aren't making a difference because some other random idiot doesn't p…

He is saying that the "random idiot" throws OPs waste in the river when disposing of it. As in the sorting the OP does, makes absolutely no difference because further down the chain they do not use the sorted waste for anything.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#66

Post by xondono »

cageface wrote: post #58
ehnto wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy, and meat & fish are very resource intensive. We're better off redirecting all the resources we currently waste trying to feed 8 billion people this way into sustainable, plant-based diets anyway.

Not trying to start the flame war, but this:

>We don't need to eat meat or fish at all to be healthy

Is still heavily disputed in nutrition circles.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#67

Post by A2017U1 »

chrisco255 wrote: post #27
A2017U1 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are claiming China paid money for recycling waste and then threw it straight in the ocean? Seems incredibly implausible.

Nah we paid China to "recycle" trash. And instead of actually recycling they just pocketed the money and dumped it.

Can you provide a source for that claim?

Id happily wager net payments are huge and going in the other direction.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#68

Post by notacoward »

toofy wrote: post #59
eecc wrote: post #3

Just like Climate Change, oceanic plastic pollution is a case of Tragedy of the commons. I can separate my waste and recycle as much as I want (and I do!) but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. This is nothing that can be solved with personal initiative and responsibility; it requires international regulation and enforcement. There’…

> but it’s all useless if a random idiot proceeds to dump my weekly household recycling output into a river and call it a day. Even if that random idiot dumps their recycling, it is anything but useless. If you didn't recycle, that would be at least 2 idiots dumping their recycling. Sorry for being pedantic, but it troubles me when people worry they aren't making a difference because some other random idiot doesn't p…

I don't think "random idiot" here meant another consumer. It meant an idiot at the recycling company, though it might not be idiocy. The stuff you put out on the curb doesn't just magically vanish the moment the big green truck pulls away. They have to put it somewhere. As one article I read recently put it, most of us (in the US) haven't really been recycling for years. We've just been shipping our carefully sorted garbage to China, so it just piles up there instead of here. Until they stopped accepting shipments. Now "recyclers" in the US have to find other markets, or figure out how to do some actual recycling on their own. Since neither of those is as profitable as what they've been doing, it wouldn't be too surprising if some resort to just negating consumers' efforts by dumping what they collect wherever they think they can get away with it.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#69

Post by inapis »

ehnto wrote: post #56
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

Yeah farmed fish is not exactly a panacea. You trade away plastics and now have to deal with antibiotics overuse and resultant resistance.

Re: Stomach of Dead Whale Contained 'Nothing but Nonstop Plastic'

#70

Post by NeedMoreTea »

ehnto wrote: post #56
cageface wrote: post #35

These stories rarely mention this for some reason but the bulk of the plastic junk in the ocean is discarded fishing nets, not consumer waste. Reducing the plastic waste you personally generate is still a good idea, of course, but if you really want to have an impact then stop eating fish. https://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/ocean-plastic-made-disca... https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2018/03/great-pacific-ga...

I am not sure that is good advice. Fixing the fishing industry is important, overfishing is rampant as is plastic waste from it. But fish is probably one of the best alternatives we have to other environmentally unfriendly meats we currently raise. As populations grow it is proving to be key to keeping everyone fed. Farmed fish most importantly will soon be the majority of fish consumed. Getting ocean based fishing t…

Have you seen the levels of pollution and disease from fish farming?
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