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Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

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Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#61

Post by dkarl »

csytan wrote: post #38
keyist wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee. I also think that green is a totally awesome color, and that we can breed birds with horses to produce pegasii. For more attacks on the W3C at best tangential to Mr. Berners-Lee's actual essay, read on. > Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C h…

I'm sure you've written better comments in the past, but countering his argument with sarcasm and no facts shows no class at all. This is exactly the kind of reply I don't want to see on HN.

It's upvoted because it demonstrates why the original comment is exactly what shouldn't be on HN: an empty stream of popular jargon that turns argument into a hipper-than-thou fashion show of buzzwords and name-dropping. HN should be more than a beauty contest to see who can sound most like a guy who's going to get rich someday. keyist's comment may be ugly, but it's insightful and just.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#62

Post by giardini »

zandorg wrote: post #51
Tichy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook dominating the web is a horror scenario.What good could you see about it? Do you want to pay a Facebook tax for every online innovation you can come up with? Do you want to be at their mercy for the survival of your business? My only hope is that in the long run freedom of innovation will always be stronger than a walled garden like Facebook. I thought Berners-Lee invented the web - how can he get too much c…

I know Ted Nelson personally. He invented the word hypertext. I'd say inventing that word proves him the father of hypertext, though Tim was the midwife.

It's just a bloody pointer - give credit to someone who truly deserves it - the fellow who invented pronouns!

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#63

Post by keyist »

keyist wrote: post #34
dominiek wrote: post #13

I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee. Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C has completely dropped the ball. Facebook and Twitter have been catalyzing internet adoption and the general spread of information. Mr. Berners-Lee's obsession about content-silos shows that there is a seriou…

> I think that Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web. And this is an incredibly arrogant statement by Mr. Berners-Lee. I also think that green is a totally awesome color, and that we can breed birds with horses to produce pegasii. For more attacks on the W3C at best tangential to Mr. Berners-Lee's actual essay, read on. > Facebook has in-fact done some serious web innovation the last years and W3C h…

Switching back to my regular voice, because there are points to make that I can't shoehorn into the fisking format.

"Berners-Lee and W3C get way too much credit for the web". Putting 'Web Founder' in airquotes. This blatant disrespect is what angered me the most and influenced my decision to fisk instead of a polite rebuttal.

Tim Berners-Lee:

- was the first to execute on the idea of combining hypertext with TCP/IP and DNS

- wrote the first browser and HTTP server

- gave it away instead of encumbering it with patents or royalties

- has the humility to downplay his accomplishment and share the credit where it is due: http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/Kids (under "Did you invent the Internet?")

- continues to work on the web to make sure it remains open and transparent instead of resting on his laurels assured of his place in history. The Scientific American essay is but the most recent example

I'm not sure what more he would need to do to be considered the founder of the web.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#65

Post by zipdog »

DrJokepu wrote: post #9
shykes wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not missing out on the quality of the tools. You're missing out on connectivity. Some people can't be accessed without Facebook. The quantity of those people is growing.

Everyone has an e-mail address (it's a requirement to be able to create a Facebook account) and pretty much everyone is on one of the IM networks.

FYI: Its possible to get a FB account without a "real" email address. ie Use a one-time address like 10 minute mail. I've had an account for about 2 years with this method, never been a problem

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#66

Post by bad_user »

swombat wrote: post #28
EliRivers wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got an idea. How about if you want a presence on the web, you have this website that you control with whatever data and pictures you want on it? Coders can develop things we'll call content management systems to make it a bit easier for you to put your data on there if you don't want to do it all yourself, and since you'll control it, you can add whatever tools and automation and widgets and the like.

I'll one up you on this. Maybe one particular group of coders can build a giant CMS that also has social networking features and allows everyone to have their page on the web, and keep up with what their friends are doing, without having to own, set up and administer their own servers (a prowess which most are incapable of). The hardest thing would be getting critical mass, but if someone could do it, wow, that would…

http://wordpress.com/

Really, what's the matter with blogs and feed readers for keeping in touch?

You know what would be great? A blogging platform that's light (picture / link attachment painless) and that also has a feed reader built in.

Oh wait ... http://www.tumblr.com/

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#67

Post by zipdog »

Tichy wrote: post #60
zandorg wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know Ted Nelson personally. He invented the word hypertext. I'd say inventing that word proves him the father of hypertext, though Tim was the midwife.

Sorry, but inventing the word really isn't good enough. I think the concept might actually predate the web for a couple of decades (too lazy to check Wikipedia right now). I seem to remember seeing an article on HN about a guy who invented it all long before there were even computers. Also, maybe Tim found the right mix of ingredients. No idea, but perhaps early hypertext concepts did not include distributed document…

There was an idea called the Memex in 1946 that was an inspiration for subsequent hypertext ideas. And a Belgian in the 1920s had a "steampunk" web, but it built more on the idea of inter-text referencing (like most encyclopedias use). Ted Nelson justifiably gets the credit for the term. There were a couple of distributed document with hyper-linkage ideas floating around in 1989 and 1990, so possibly Tim was just the one to put enough of it together and it would have happened within a year or two anyway, but there are certain aspects to his particular putting-it-together (the ease of writing HTML for display and content for example) that were important to the web becoming what it did, and possibly might not have happened at all without his push.

Re: Tim Berners-Lee says Facebook is a trap

#68

Post by zipdog »

brianobush wrote: post #64

Is there much value in the content on FB to those outside the social circle it is intended for? Most of my friends on FB post interesting blurbs, but it is time-specific and usually requires some insider information to be useful/interpreted.

One huge value: Targeted advertising. The FB scripts can tell your sexual orientation from your post content. I imagine they know a lot more than that too.
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