I don’t agree with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia’s stances, but I also feel like keeping a list of each state that violates human rights is not in Tim Cook’s or Sundar Pichai’s job description. If we are just being honest with ourselves the list of countries in which you can do business approaches 0 if we call out the violators. Secondly, the last time I checked a company’s mandate is to abide by the laws of the countr…
They are helping them violate human rights. Therefore, they do have a list. It's just the wrong type of list.
Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
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Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
I am aware of the repression of women in SA but I didn't realize they weren't even allowed to leave the country. The addition of real time tracking technology just makes it that much more horrifying. Imagine being a woman trying to escape domestic abuse and being returned to your abuser when you try to flee.
Pointing out that your use of language is dismissive is pretty much the opposite of jaded. I guess it's probably moderately condescending, but it's hard to do that sort of thing well. Do note that I said "act astonished" and didn't really insist that you must be ignorant.
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what? So Apple removes the app from the store. Does that materially impact Saudi Arabi's institutional oppression of women?
Yes. The app makes it much more difficult for women to subvert the oppression. Before the app the government used little paper slips to grant travel permission, now the "guardians" get SMS notifications when a woman's passport is scanned.
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pointing out that your use of language is dismissive is pretty much the opposite of jaded. I guess it's probably moderately condescending, but it's hard to do that sort of thing well. Do note that I said "act astonished" and didn't really insist that you must be ignorant.
I'll assume you're referring to your comment that was flagged to death and accept your apology.
The idea that flags here are sensible is hilarious.
Anyway, time to move on.
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
thatoneyouthrow got flagged for his personal attacks on people. The quote "None of these men care about women or LGBT unless it's legally enforced." is clearly untrue, and simply doesn't address what is a multi-faceted issue. It's worth noting that if citizens of the US are concerned about this, then the citizens have the power - via government - to fix this by imposing trade sanctions.
I'm a US citizen. Where do I find the form for imposing trade sanctions? Can I file it electronically?
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#66thatoneyouthrow got flagged for commenting on the hypocrisy of the tech Elite for their support of a government in Saudi Arabia that kills journalists and oppresses females with no apologies - that funds radical Islam throughout the world - in the comments of an article discussing Apple and Google distributing government oppression apps on their stores. It is odd. The keep from being too meta, I pose this question (s…
thatoneyouthrow got flagged for his personal attacks on people. The quote "None of these men care about women or LGBT unless it's legally enforced." is clearly untrue, and simply doesn't address what is a multi-faceted issue. It's worth noting that if citizens of the US are concerned about this, then the citizens have the power - via government - to fix this by imposing trade sanctions.
Can the voting US public really make a difference to foreign policy with the UAE\Saudi Arabia?
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There's a grey area that's worthy of discussion, but we the voting public and as voters for democratically elected governments have cracked the shits with governments and international businesses for much less than what Saudi Arabia have done as a hostile, extremist sovereign third party has achieved. The only difference with Saudia Arabia is the ridiculous amount of financial influence they hold and this blurs borders on the cost/value of morality.
Most companies are beholden to their share holders to make a profit, but at which point do write a line in the sand and say, we no longer allow money to grey the lines on what we consider morale and immoral?
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Also consider the US voting public are losing their shit about a wall at time of writing. That's a fairly black and white concern when you consider the implications and rather obvious cost benefit (slim to none). The border wall is potentially the biggest white elephant that's gone to US policy in recent times. It's not going to work. And it's going to be incredibly expensive if it is built. Yet... a strong portion of the public still want it built. And it will be at the expense of schools, public health, infrastructure, disaster relief.
Now consider.... you think the US voting public have the collective nous to make an international impact on US foreign policy with an extremist, wealthy 'ally' like UAE\Saudi Arabia? Sincerely?
I don't have the same faith in the public hive mind as you. But... I don't have another option that can help besides publicly discussing the point as we are. For all the benefits of how much better life is for those living right now vs prior generations. We do an exceptional job at shitting in our own beds over and over again.
Edit: structure and a few words.
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what? So Apple removes the app from the store. Does that materially impact Saudi Arabi's institutional oppression of women?
Yes. The app makes it much more difficult for women to subvert the oppression. Before the app the government used little paper slips to grant travel permission, now the "guardians" get SMS notifications when a woman's passport is scanned.
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
thatoneyouthrow got flagged for his personal attacks on people. The quote "None of these men care about women or LGBT unless it's legally enforced." is clearly untrue, and simply doesn't address what is a multi-faceted issue. It's worth noting that if citizens of the US are concerned about this, then the citizens have the power - via government - to fix this by imposing trade sanctions.
I posit that there are two issues here: profit and rights for women. Now it seems to me that the real issue is profits over the rights of women. But please educate me on how this is a "multi-faceted" issue if I have left something out. Maybe Apple and Google are entitled to make money from Saudi Arabia's oppression of women? Once again, please make your case.
But nor do I believe that Sundar Pichai or Tim Cook were aware of this app previously or had any personal responsibility for it.
Nor do I think they should be vilified for shaking hands with MBS prior to the murder of Khashoggi, and especially not prior to the Yemeni war.
Re: Apple, Google criticised for Saudi Absher app that tracks women
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
I posit that there are two issues here: profit and rights for women. Now it seems to me that the real issue is profits over the rights of women. But please educate me on how this is a "multi-faceted" issue if I have left something out. Maybe Apple and Google are entitled to make money from Saudi Arabia's oppression of women? Once again, please make your case.
No I don't believe that Google or Apple should make money from the oppression of women. I believe this app is free, so they don't appear to be in this case. Nevertheless, I'd like to see it removed. But nor do I believe that Sundar Pichai or Tim Cook were aware of this app previously or had any personal responsibility for it. Nor do I think they should be vilified for shaking hands with MBS prior to the murder of Kha…
Can he really feign ignornance?