Live data from Hacker News

Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

scmp.com

61–70 of 70 posts

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#61
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. Pufferfish has been legal in the US for decades at least, there is a classic Simpons episode in which Homer consumes one. If you meant to comment on drug policy: many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but beca…

Alcohol is an unusual case because it's so much easier to make than any other drug. You can even make it by accident, e.g. by leaving fruit juice out uncovered. When prisoners sometimes make "prison wine" without getting caught, you have little hope of enforcing a ban in the general population.

You can even make it inside of yourself, potentially by accident. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-brewery_syndrome

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#62
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So something is dangerous and people are going to do it anyway so they legalize it and try to make it safer instead of criminalizing it. The US could learn from China on this one. No there's nothing to be learned here because the US is a very different system. It consists of strong independent state level enforcement entities, it's a collection of individual states, each with an economy of the top 50 economies of t…

Any post supporting or defending China in any way is definitely an exception. I'm surprised to see any "China #1" posts anywhere. Anti-China sentiments are universal on HN and Reddit if you search any thread mentioning China. I wouldn't say though that life is below UN standards for the average city citizen. I'd still count it a first-world country purely on lifestyle.

I wouldn't say there's anti-Chinese sentiments that is unwarranted.

China is actively stealing from advanced technology holding countries. Whataboutism is a common way to justify the behavior, which further inflmmates and even conjures up the good old sinophobia.

I think that much of what you read as anti-Chinese content is simply anything that describes a future without China as a hegemony.

China faces a huge risk of fragmenting like the USSR did, from which it would never fully recover.

but given the iron grip of the government and the military it is far more likely we will see China slip into a authoritarian state much like Putin's Russia or North Korea.

I think instead a far more likely candidate that could possibly challenge the US hegemony is a sort of EURO-ASIA partnership, where European countries would compete for highly educated workforces. Culture might be a barrier, but I feel that Japanese and Koreans work well with Europeans.

So it would be a China exclusive economic coalition that would pose a challenge to the US, if they do not move away from their current trajectory.

Russia will 100% fragment in the next 5 years, as they are literally on their last reserves and China is also not far off because their debt is staggering, not unlike the Japanese real estate bubble crisis.

Again my prediction is the US hegemony is unlikely to be challenged by a sole country superpower, but rather economically and technological coalition of outside countries that can pose a challenge (basically US vs the rest of the world which is even unlikely....as the US has port calls all over the world).

If China is to replace US, it needs to start building those nuclear carriers fast and well, something which is an impossibility at this current rate.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#63
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but because of the harm the user causes to others, and it's not feasible to make a "safer" dose because the nature of these drugs encourages addicts to use larger or stronger doses over time. I'm interested in how making them illegal abates this? It seems like a non-sequitur to me. Further, even after making many natural drugs in categories that…

I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison. A third reason is that generally speaking, they cause a lot of pain and suffering. I’m against prohibition, but dismissing it entirely as moralizing and social control misses the very real dangers of drug abuse, and t…

Moralization is not random, the action is usually any behavior to protect your offspring at all cost in all scenarios. Millions of parents vote for anti drug and war on drug policies, to increase the chances of theire kids having grandkids. And it's a understandable goal, e even though it's heresy for a libertarian.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#64
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not forget that while you added marijuana as an example of this, it's both not currently entirely allowed, and for a very long time was classified as highly dangerous. It's a good example of not only how the government can get this wrong, but how it is also is susceptible to being swayed by politics (both as a constituency wants something whether justified or not, and as a scapegoat for political ends). In that…

In that respect, alcohol is actually a counter-example to some degree as well, since it arguably causes quite a large harm to others every year through drunk driving, yet it's politically untenable to ban it (again). The difference between alcohol and the other drugs is that alcohol makes other activities dangerous, but the onus is ultimately on the individual. The other drugs simply make the person dangerous, due to…

> The other drugs simply make the person dangerous, due to hallucinations, violent/uncontrollable urges, etc.

Are you making the case that alcohol doesn't sometimes cause people to act violent or dangerous?

I'm not really a fan of anything more than caffeine and the occasional alcoholic beverage, but let's be realistic, there's plenty of violence that happens because people are under the influence of alcohol that wouldn't happen if they were not. I'm sure there's thousands of people in prison right now for that reason. Any drug that lowers inhibitions has a chance to cause someone to act on a violent urge they wouldn't otherwise.

> The difference between alcohol and the other drugs ... They also have permanent physiological effects on the brain even at low doses and only a few uses, whereas alcohol would require substantial amounts of consumption to have significant or permanent effects.

So, your evidence is that you can pick a drug that is worse than alcohol, thus alcohol is better than "other drugs"? That's not how logic works.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#65
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: the long term effects of alcohol lead to a decreased quality of life. Sad teen DUI is absolutely sad, but 15 years of bleeding ulcers and the pain caused by liver/kidney problems due to alcoholism isn't exactly sunshine and smiles. That's not even getting into the links between dementia and alcohol abuse, because I personally find nothing more terrifying than being a shell of my former self as my mind f…

As far as I'm concerned, a young person dying peacefully in their sleep is more tragic than an elderly person dying slowly and painfully. The math on this one seems pretty straight forward to me, but I appreciate that some people may find attitude cold or cynical. Most people probably wouldn't be willing to throw that proverbial trolley switch, but I would without hesitation.

Without going too far down the moral philosophy hole, I think we can both agree that there's pros and cons to either side of this one, and just part on good terms. This is classic "maximizing joy" vs "minimizing suffering" axis stuff.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#66
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many drugs are illegal not because of the harm they cause to the user but because of the harm the user causes to others, and it's not feasible to make a "safer" dose because the nature of these drugs encourages addicts to use larger or stronger doses over time. I'm interested in how making them illegal abates this? It seems like a non-sequitur to me. Further, even after making many natural drugs in categories that…

I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison. A third reason is that generally speaking, they cause a lot of pain and suffering. I’m against prohibition, but dismissing it entirely as moralizing and social control misses the very real dangers of drug abuse, and t…

> they cause a lot of pain and suffering

Nothing compared to the US prison system, which is where we send people. It is entirely moralizing. Our prison system is the way that it is because of a specific morality in the US, just as so many laws and political positions that exist. There is nothing ethical about it.

If you want people who are addicted to drugs to be able to free themselves from the cycle in a country with a prison system like ours designed to cause fear, you must make the drugs legal, so that coming forward isn't a permanent personal threat.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#67
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will suggest instead that drugs are illegal for two reasons: Moralization, which is basically randomness applied to ethics; and because it allows our justice system to pick and choose who to imprison. A third reason is that generally speaking, they cause a lot of pain and suffering. I’m against prohibition, but dismissing it entirely as moralizing and social control misses the very real dangers of drug abuse, and t…

> they cause a lot of pain and suffering Nothing compared to the US prison system, which is where we send people. It is entirely moralizing. Our prison system is the way that it is because of a specific morality in the US, just as so many laws and political positions that exist. There is nothing ethical about it. If you want people who are addicted to drugs to be able to free themselves from the cycle in a country wi…

The pain and suffering is also shouldered by people around the substance abuser. While I don't disagree with you about prison, if much of innocent parties' pain can be abated by taking the abuser out of the system, then it is not just moralizing.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#68
Problem: Pufferfish meat is delicious but it can kill you.

Japanese solution: we will employ the finest of artisans who have practiced for five years to exactly remove the poisonous parts of the pufferfish. As these artisans are specially-trained, we will also charge you at a most exquisite price.

Chinese solution: we will just breed out the poison.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#69
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You reply on a post arguing that control can increase safety by saying illegal drugs are unsafe because they are uncontrolled. Putting your circular reasoning aside, there are so many illegal drugs that are safer for the user and the population than alcohol. It shows you have no idea what you are talking about.

My reasoning is not circular, I'm simply not explaining everything in that post. Those other drugs aren't unsafe because they're uncontrolled. They're unsafe because they're unsafe: they cause permanent physiological changes to the body even at small doses and even after only a few uses. (Contra alcohol and marijuana which requires truly staggering use before causing permanent physiological harm.) It shows you have n…

Arguing from authority won't help your point. My argument was not by the way that other substances are harmless, but merely that the ratio of victims/users is higher for alcohol than a lot of scheduled substances. I do believe you have a lot of negative experience, but you have to interact solely with those cases that acted suspiciously in the eye of the law which will leave a bias.

Re: Pufferfish in China bred poison-free

#70
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any post supporting or defending China in any way is definitely an exception. I'm surprised to see any "China #1" posts anywhere. Anti-China sentiments are universal on HN and Reddit if you search any thread mentioning China. I wouldn't say though that life is below UN standards for the average city citizen. I'd still count it a first-world country purely on lifestyle.

I wouldn't say there's anti-Chinese sentiments that is unwarranted. China is actively stealing from advanced technology holding countries. Whataboutism is a common way to justify the behavior, which further inflmmates and even conjures up the good old sinophobia. I think that much of what you read as anti-Chinese content is simply anything that describes a future without China as a hegemony. China faces a huge risk o…

Those thoughts are valid, but that's not what i see online. See Reddit now about Tencent's investment. That's the sort of thing. Western media is more apt to upvoting and exposing anti-China stuff whenever it happens, no matter how small (e.g., videos of Chinese tourists misbehaving), (although many may be warranted), leading more and more to sinophobia in an unhealthy manner.

Many people I talk to or read call China's people brainwashed or oblivious. People are more apt to post anecdotes about Chinese people they know that confirms these beliefs, and those anecdotes are readily upvoted because it confirms other people's beliefs, further pushing it more.

It's almost propaganda in a way. Not explicitly released by a government, but the dark hand of the media and influence. I don't think western people know much about what it's like within China or its people. Imagine if Chinese people did not know much about the US, and the government started encouraging or posting about slavery, the Boston massacre, Guantanamo Bay, war in the middle east, homeless situations, etc.

I might be off, but I think people have swung too far in the other direction, that some balance needs to be brought, else there's gonna be another Red Scare and I see prejudice is very strong against the Chinese these days although people won't admit that.

Post reply on HN